JKLive

[exidl]

Hello,

 

I've been having that idea in mind since the JK's source code has been released.

 

The main goal would be to create a Jedi Knight version of Quake Live, making you able to play the game directly from your web browser, find a ranked match quickly with some new gametypes such as Clan Arena, Conquest (if the maps are big enough) and certainly more.

 

Of course, it would be only for playing the game, and not typing /amsit and telling what happened when you woke up.

 

For the assets, the best solution would be finding some existing maps and models which I could be allowed to redistribute freely. Otherwise, it will simply ask the player to kindly point their GameData directory.

 

For the servers, I plan to donate some, people having their own will be welcome to do the same if they want to. I'm also against the hosting restrictions in Quake Live, I plan to do my best to give you the possibility to host your own without any restriction.

 

This is still nothing more than just an idea, and I'm posting here in order to share it with you, and gladly receive your input before going deeper into it.

 

Thanks for reading anyway, I feel highly motivated about trying to make this possible.

[Grab]

Are you programmer? Will you work alone? JKA in browser is hardest thing to do.

[afi]

I had this idea... but when I think about all the work that needs to be done... :|

[exidl]

Are you programmer? Will you work alone? JKA in browser is hardest thing to do.

 

Hey,

 

Well, I've been working a lot with Quake 3 in the past, and I've already been working with embedding Ogre3D and Irrlicht with FireBreath too, you have nothing to worry about. But the only issue is that coding is all I can do. I'm weak into modeling and UI design.  Of course I won't work alone, but I'd rather focus on the coding side before hiring if it would be needed.

 

There's also a sample on a github project showing how to embed quake 3 in a web browser with FireBreath, so I'm completely ready for this challenge, and I'm just looking for some advice from the community.

[DT.]

This will have the same problem as the recreation project - animations.

[eezstreet]

Nope. Supposing you embed JKA into a browser wholesale, there could be some interesting legal ways to get around it. I can envision a process of registering on a site, and then running a program once to determine whether you've got a legal copy of the game installed. If everything is hunkey dorey, you're good to go.

[exidl]

This will have the same problem as the recreation project - animations.

 

I've almost forgot that. I've missed something important in that story : how did slider make new animations for JAPlus ? I'll just focus in embedding it correctly first, Raz0r has told some stuff about a possible IQM replacement, it would have a lot of chances to happen in that project then if GLM is that much of trouble.

 

 

Nope. Supposing you embed JKA into a browser wholesale, there could be some interesting legal ways to get around it. I can envision a process of registering on a site, and then running a program once to determine whether you've got a legal copy of the game installed. If everything is hunkey dorey, you're good to go.

 

I see. The little popup asking for the GameData folder path won't be enough then... the best solution for that would probably be the "Sign in with Steam" button, and I'm aware that people don't want to buy the game a second time.

 

But, isn't OpenJK in the same trouble since all you have to do is simply put the openjk.exe file into the GameData folder ?

[eezstreet]

No, because it's just code that uses the same assets. If you run a game online like that, that then implies that everything is preloaded online. Though yeah, a select folder thing would work. I'm not sure of the details.

At any rate, you just need to run a check sum on their assetsX.pk3 files and make sure they match retail JKA. You'd run this check once and then their account would be authorized to run the game.

[Raz0r]

I don't think any such restrictions exist. Just ask them to specify the directory to load assets from.

Then you only need to distribute binaries + your own additional assets (e.g. new scoreboards) to whatever directory you want (i.e. fs_homepath, so ~/.jklive/ or C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\JKLive or whatever)

[eezstreet]

I don't think any such restrictions exist. Just ask them to specify the directory to load assets from.

Then you only need to distribute binaries + your own additional assets (e.g. new scoreboards) to whatever directory you want (i.e. fs_homepath, so ~/.jklive/ or C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\JKLive or whatever)

Is that how QuakeLive does it? I have no idea how it even works really.

[Fighter]

Is that how QuakeLive does it? I have no idea how it even works really.

Concerning selecting a directory for assets - QuakeLive is made by id so there's no need to own q3 or load assets from a directory the user specifies.

[eezstreet]

Concerning selecting a directory for assets - QuakeLive is made by id so there's no need to own q3 or load assets from a directory the user specifies.

Well yeah, but I mean I was curious as to how the whole setup renders stuff on the client.

[Raz0r]

It downloads the assets to C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\LocalLow\id Software\quakelive and the client loads them from there.

iD own everything, including the right to redistribute. JKLive would skip the redistribution step and ask the player to specify the directory for their existing assets.

[h643]

It would be very cool if it was possible to pull this off with WebGL (no browser plugins needed)

[exidl]

It would be very cool if it was possible to pull this off with WebGL (no browser plugins needed)

 

I agree, but I don't know if I would have to recode JKA entirely in JS, would be weird and I'm not pretty sure about the performance results ;(

Maybe using Google Native Client would be a better idea ? I'm not sure if it works under Internet Explorer, Safari and even Firefox.

 

Anyway, got some interesting proof of concept right here :

 

 

Doing this with Firebreath was pretty easy, just have to redirect the window, and launch OpenJK in a separate thread.

 

Sometimes I question myself, thinking if I should plan to replace the assets or keep the original ones...

 

The big question is : Seriously, who would like play the same JKA into a web browser ? 

 

I think that's pretty pointless, and I see an opportunity of making another enhanced JK game.

We could bring a lot of things that OpenJK actually can't (since they have to make sure that the OpenJK engine is still compatible with the original one).

And I realize that it's actually the same goal as QuakeLive had.

 

But right now... I can just bring you a nice web-based JKA server browser   , and that's where I'm focusing.

I don't promise anything but I'll just need three weeks (got ton of stuff to do at uni) until I bring you a playable version into a website made from scratch, and of course with the source code.

[Pande]

I *HATE* browser games, I wish quakelive had their own app (and I don't mean using QLPrism, that's just a web browser with only one page it ever loads). They introduce so many more problems and require you to have another process open (the browser... even the incredibly basic IE still takes up enough CPU that it get's in the way of the game .. hence why QLPrism was made, but even that takes up more CPU than running it as it's own .exe like normal Quake3).

 

So.. there's my opinion. 

 

I would like a free version of the game, but the fact is without using the existing animations, the game will be different. The saber system is based on the animations themselves, using ghoul2 collision detection from the saber blade. Change the animation for all clients, and the gameplay changes. So you could make something similar for sure, but it won't be the same.

 

As for using the Demo files or checking for a CD game.... well, as a browser game, that makes sense I guess. But then if you have the CD.. why not just download OpenJK and run the .exe? See what I mean?

[exidl]

Hey Pande, thanks for your input, I really appreciate it !

 

 

I *HATE* browser games, I wish quakelive had their own app.

 

What would happen if the JKLive website goes down ? No more game during the weekend ?

I'm against this, the plugin should install a standalone executable with a shortcut, which would create a window and run the client dll file inside it. This would leave the player being able to launch a LAN game, join an "unregistered server" by typing it's IP address directly, or synchronize their profile with the JKLive website and join a "registered server" from an internal server browser for those who don't like web-based games.

 

I've been trying to investigate the CPU trouble, I can't see anything strange about it and I am not in a good enough position to claim that Quake Live might have been badly designed : here's the CPU usage comparison under Chrome, and another one with the original executable.

 

Under Chrome, OpenJK is actually a dll file, loaded and launched into a separate thread.

Maybe Quake Live has been done differently, but I'm not sure about what I'm saying yet.

 

 

but the fact is without using the existing animations, the game will be different

 

Thanks for pointing this out, I've forgot that we would have to recreate every animations, and I see the problem more clearly now.

I know it would be illegal to open the models and export the animations into another format.

 

But would the issue be the same if I reproduce the animations by doing this way ?

- Open MD3View

- Load Kyle GLM model

- Run an animation

- Take a screenshot for each frame

- Open Blender and pose the new model's bones with the screenshot in the background

- The animations wouldn't be entirely the same, but really approximate.

 

The animation recreation would become our main reason to use IQM instead of GLM.

 

 

So you could make something similar for sure, but it won't be the same.

 

Of course, if we're going into that way, then I see no other choice but making the "Counter-Strike : Source" of JKA.

 

 

But then if you have the CD.. why not just download OpenJK and run the .exe? See what I mean?

 

I agree with you if this goes with the web-based OpenJK running with the original Jedi Academy assets, it would be only useful to synchronize game config files, have a new kind of server browser, maybe even a buddy list,...

 

But I've pretty liked the idea of Quake Live.

I've just thought that it could be amazing to see the next Jedi Knight (or just the same with major enhancements) as a web-based game for the following reasons :

 

- Just go to the website, create an account, and install the plugin easily

- Config files and other important stuff would be kept, each player would have a personal storage for that

- The standalone Jedi Academy version only provides the servers list. The web-based one would provide the entire community at the same time.

- and many other reasons, but I won't bet this time that it could "bring some members back or new ones" to the Jedi Knight community and keep it more solid that time !

 

And of course, there are a lot of stuff I hate in Quake Live, such as the restrictions on having personal servers, mods, maps, skins,...

I'll try my best to avoid putting these, otherwise it would be completely pointless to continue further, the Jedi Knight source code has been released for complete freedom, not these stupid limits.

[afi]

I think the whole concept only makes sense when you make it standalone, means when you use your own assets. Otherwise I don't see a reason why I would play the game in the browser instead of the regular way

[eezstreet]

Every reason that you've listed is pretty invalid:
- vs just installing the game and playing it?
- Configs are already stored on the computer. That's like saying that you're adding the ability to take screenshots. How do you plan on handling that anyway?
- Uhhh...what?

Now don't get me wrong, I like this idea, but I like it for entirely different reasons. Imagine storing all your mods and stuff on the cloud, and having stuff like achievements. No need to redownload all your crap. Take JKA with you wherever you go.

See, THAT would be cool.

 

[exidl]

I think the whole concept only makes sense when you make it standalone, means when you use your own assets. Otherwise I don't see a reason why I would play the game in the browser instead of the regular way

 

The only reason would be about making the "community portal" in HTML and not compiled into the game, but yeah, in the end a browser plugin would be useless if the standalone stuff is provided with the whole community interface hardcoded inside it.

 

@@eezstreet

I've explained myself badly about the config stuff, I was exactly thinking about a config file synchronization, like when you reinstall windows, just launch the game, login to your account, and you get your config files back !

 

Now if we forget everything about the web-browser plugin, the main idea would be about making a "community portal" like in Quake Live, the Battlefield and Call of Duty series, completely inside the standalone game. I don't know how we call this (if it has a name), when you login into the game, retrieve your profile, stats, achievements, etc...

 

For the cloud storage, I've just thought about the config files, not something heavy like full mods, but screenshots would be okay. And yes, maybe give an access to a mod/maps/models repository into the game, and it will redownload everything automatically on a new computer, with the config files stored for each mod. So, why not !

 

And of course, the game should never depend on that cloud.

[eezstreet]

A community portal doesn't sound bad. I'm currently working on something like that, so I would say to wait on it. Though, I am curious to see how far you can push it on the web browser and it might be beneficial to what I'm doing right now.

[Pande]

 

I agree with you if this goes with the web-based OpenJK running with the original Jedi Academy assets, it would be only useful to synchronize game config files, have a new kind of server browser, maybe even a buddy list,...

 

 

Those things can be done with a database and account system, such as through a game launcher (maybe ' the JKHub Launcher ' ) which could launch multiple game versions, mods, etc and do things such as achievements  +  config files stored in a database

[Fighter]

Those things can be done with a database and account system, such as through a game launcher (maybe ' the JKHub Launcher ' ) which could launch multiple game versions, mods, etc and do things such as achievements  +  config files stored in a database

A JKHub launcher would be an interesting idea. I've thought of similar ideas in the past. One could easily install popular mods, and less popular mods could be added too to perhaps get them noticed. Of course, the permission of the mod's devs would need to be obtained for this. It would also solve the problem of someone having several launchers (though atm the only active mod I know of using a launcher is JKG). Perhaps somehow it could also support maps, models, etc. too.

 

@@eezstreet If others in the community support the idea of a launcher, perhaps somehow it could go along with your current project? I don't know, just an idea.

[eezstreet]

It'd be part of the link system, I'd think.

[Pande]

I did talk to @futuza about expanding our JKG launcher code into a separate project as a general purpose game launcher,  to also be able to connect to other FTPs so as to download from MovieBattles site, JKHub, etc and launch the mods (with per-mod setting profiles and such).

 

On top of that, a server browser and maybe even an IRC powered lobby chatroom that could be accessed ingame as well  (second console ingame to chat in IRC).

 

You can see I'm dreaming now. Would be cool though. Would also have alerts about updates to said mods and games, which while under development would be pretty useful for OJK.