Hels

Hels SaberSystems for JKA This document has as it’s propose to formal introduce the saber system that I have created. This sabersystem is product of hours of playing JK2 and JKA, mostly moded (but not only), reading about Star Wars lightsaber fighting, analyzing SW coreographies (mainly original trilogy ones) and… fencing myself. The objective of this sabersystem is to achieve a middle point and conciliate lore-wise, movie-like gameplay and a “realistic” fencing gameplay (all realistic that you can have with a lethal weapon that kills in one-hit and magic futuristic wizards that harness the power of the Force pushing, pulling and Force-choking people or throwing lightining from their fingers). With “realistic” I mean more “actually feeling like a Jedi” than having a gameplay close to reality in fencing terms, although several concepts of fencing will be used here. I won't be using coding concepts since I don't have enough knowledge to completely explain this in code (or else I would be coding it for you, not giving you ideas), but I will be using concepts that help me to explain how plastic should the combat feel. First of all… We should ask ourselves… “Why do we need to mod JKII / JKA?” This question has been asked and answered back by many mods, but is an inevitable one if we are about to mod a game. We have to know and put over the table what aspects we don’t like from the vanilla game and how to change them to a better point. So basically, the reason because I think most of the people that looked for a moding option for the vanilla game was that it didn’t felt like actually playing a Jedi, or it was not “movie-like”. The pace of the game was TOO FAST, and didn’t felt like playing a Jedi in a movie at all. Not for no reason the most-played and known mod of the community is called “Movie Battles II” (never knew what happened to the first one though) and many others came later trying to do the same. But… why did exactly the vanilla game not felt as movie-like. Imo, there are 2 many reasons for that. - First one is that sabers won’t one-hit kill you most of the times, for the sake of balance and have longer duels. Well while I actually agreed that for the sake of balance and mostly to have a bit more of durable duels, is a good thing, I actually think that that made vanilla game feel something but Star Wars. - Second thing was that the game was more about to dodge and run the rival strikes rather than blocking them and returning them against the oponent. A poor and not very reliable blocking system that required you to move backwards and that actually didn’t penalize you too much for running, and actually that was quite encouraged, made this game feel not much like movie-like. So this are the two things we have to fix. Now you might say… But hey, Movie Battles 2, already does that! And I will answer… Yes, Movie Battles kinda fixes the pace and the one-hit kill thing… But it does it in a quite unelegant way (and remember that lightsaber is an elegant weapon for a more civilized age), loosing for that purpose all the good things that had the vanilla game, that was saber interaction. Movie-Battles feels extremely plain, sabers will always bounce same way, and is closer to a classic fighting game that to this marvelous but uncomplete experience that JK2 and JKA wanted to give us. So what do we have to ask ourselves is… how do we solve this then? In order to response back to this we have to go deeper in analyzing JK2 and JKA mistakes and give response to it without taking away the saber interaction. BLOCKING IN JKA BASE AND CHANGES TO BE MADE In this section I will be introducing the changes to be made to the block and how they should affect the game. To not get saturated, I will be dividing it into 3 subsections. 1. Changes to passive block/iddle block. 2. Directional blocking or manual blocking 3. Autoblock and blocking resources. 1. Changes to passive/idle block. So we had that it was not lore-wise cause sabers wouldn’t one-hit kill you, but also… that blocking system was not reliable, running and acrobatics where TOO MUCH encouraged, being a constant instead of a tactical weapon to avoid enemy attacks, etc... The first thing is easy to solve, just make the saber do insane amounts of damage, specially to torso and head if we work with different hitboxes for the different parts of the body, and anyway, even if not one-hit kill always, most of the attacks would nearly chunk all your life so is kinda not the worst of the problems. Also related to this is the passthrough which is something OpenJK worked over it. Now the second thing is more complex and quite more of a problem. How do we make the blocking system more reliable? Now, here’s where most of the mods made a big mistake themselves. Movie-Battles solution was simple. “We put a blocking button, as long as you hold block, there’s a magic wall around you that has x blocking points and once those blocking points are lost, bam, you don’t block anymore and the next strike get’s you killed”. This has been probably the best and the worst thing ever done. The best cause it gives us a way to limit the blocking capacity of a player, something base JKA didn’t feature, so making blocking more reliable, could end on having a TOO reliable and strong mechanic that would make games endless. Movie battles effectively solved this problem putting a resource that was there only to handle the block system, and that was good. The worst cause as said before, it destroyed all and everything simple saber interaction mechanic other thant the nudging thing. While I have to give credit to Movie Battles for having the intelligence to limit the blocking feature, and therefore opening the possibility to make it stronger, it actually felt that what was blocking the hits was a magic wall and not the saber itself. Prove of this is the infame “bodyhit” where the saber would hit your body and simply drain BP, where it should have sliced you in half… Also, there was no aim to control opponent’s blade over yours, the saber clashes were removed, there was almost no knockback there… All the good things that were thought in JK2/JKA, instead of improving them and make them more visible and important into the gameplay, Movie Battles completely removed it. Now this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeflZKDlhxo this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znub1FHud3o this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPPTDciICw and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hllOzYbnyts Allow us to see some mechanics of the JK2 and JKA sabersystem, and while blocking works not as good as we might want, there’s a satisfying ammount of saber interaction that shouldn’t be removed. What we DO WANT is to build over JKA MP system, where several tactics could be made to disrupt your enemies attack, but encouraging a slower pace and encouraging, most important, to walk instead of running. So, let’s remove the bad thing, that is the “magic-wall non interaction thing” of movie battles and let’s take only the good idea. A resource that allows us to limit the usefullness and reliableness of the block, say “blocking points”. Now… what? We can limit an OP mechanic, but that mechanic was not actually OP in the base game, not even good, to the point players preffered to dodge most of the times that try to block. How can we change that? Well, that’s simple. Enhance uses of autoblock and how does it trigger. In JK2/JKA, it would trigger when not moving, or moving backwards, but not always. Make it trigger when walking, no matter the direction, and trigger more times. You raise your saber and stay in ready position, ready to take the hit. Now you might say… “that’s too op if you can block any attack from any incoming direction”. Well, "simple", let's make it so that you block only attacks coming from a direction you are facing too. Let's say like imagine, a field of view of X in front of where you are aiming, there you block. Something like in this video but only from where you are facing and without holding block. The zone in front of the character that is able to block correctly should be tested to be challenging enough yet still instinctive. Is important to take note on the fact that character might need to make a small animation to block into it's front into the upcoming attack, so that it feels more realistic. 2. Directional blocking or manual blocking “So now, is that all? How do you block, just facing, no blocking button?” No, is not all, and yes, you block only by facing, no need of press anything and… yes, there’s a blocking button. “But wait a minute, you said you block only by facing, no need of pressing anything, what’s the block button then?” Ok, for this I need to explain the 3 circles of blocking in lightsaber combat. This is something you can check in the wookiepedia. The inner, the medium and the outer circle.Now, the inner circle is all about a defensive block. The intention is to just block and hold as much as possible. The outer circle is about countering, opening the defenses of your enemy through the block, dominating the enemy saber as it attacks by anticipating and therefore moving the enemy saber into a side when you block. The medium circle is a mix of both things. Is not as defensive as the inner circle (Jedi ready pose) but is not as fast as the outer circle. Now, the exterior circle would be to spread completely the arms and block OUT the enemy attack. Medium would be less agressive, but more than inner one. Traduction in terms of gameplay. Medium circle, that you should enter by holding block button, will allow you to block by using 8 different directions (counting standing). Jedi Ready when standing should change to a more offensive animation, and you will have other 7 different directions to manually matching the directions you can make an attack from (upper, upper left, upper right, right, left, down right and down left). It could be interesting to feature certain animations from the MD mod with it's permission since they have some good animations. Now, the medium and the outer circle, reflect back some of the mishap of the attack, dealing Mishap (I will explain later the concept) to the attacker. The outer circle, in addition, creates knockbacks or even knockdowns or disarms on higher mishaps. As a disadvantage, medium and outer circle receive more penalization in terms of mishap, force used and staggers procced when failing a block. Outer circle would be entered by holding block + attack, and would need a good timing or it’s effects would minimize few momments (less than a second) after receiving the impact. Also, manual blocking while running should be possible, giving bonus and penalizations. In case of failing, the autoblock should proc but almost do nothing to parry and instantly being broken by the enemy hit, specially if it is a red or purple one, even dying instantly despite to triggering autoblock if the saber fully connects the body. The outer defense should have an animation where you can see how the character “pushes” with the saber towards the outside. When holding attack and defense, if you let go the defense button and hold attack, you would do an attack from the guard. 3. Autoblock and blocking resources. What happens when you don’t block an attack by facing it then? You die instanctly? No. Here’s where the magic starts. Similar to how Movie Battles worked in this sense, you would somehow be saved by something. What about your own saber instead of a magic out-of-nothing wall? Your character would perform an autoblocking move BUT at expense of certain resource. Now this resource could be either Force or it could be Blocking points. But most important. It should have consecuences. Your character should bounce back by a small duration when doing a bad block, and next attack until it recovers the defensive position should have it’s cost in blocking points increased and even, have it doing some damage to your health. To explain it better, you block but you are put out of balance, making that the next attack you suffer until you recover your balance position is taken with a less solid defense. For this I would create an extra resource and maybe some other sub-resources dependant on it, that is Mihsap or Balance. While Force or block points would determine if you can autoblock again, if the autoblock animation triggers, Mishap or Balance would measure how unbalanced are you and how posible is to break your guard. They care about different aspects of the game. One is about long term stability of the blocking feature, and the other makes reference to the unbalance suffered after a single, powerfull strike, or several strikes in a row. Some might ask… Wouldn’t it be better to have a single resource measuring that as Force or Block points? And I would say… yes… and no. For sake of simplicity, it might be, but the actual use of Mishap is a different one of Force or autoblocking points. While Force points would allow you to trigger autoblock, Mishap is about HOW STRONG is that autoblock. You should think about Mishap like the recoil of a weapon in other games like CS:GO, Insurgency, etc. You shoot/get hit, knock out of balance, and you can actually pull the trigger again or hold it even when you are out of balance, but at the cost of accuracy. Mishap is highly tied to the concept of knockbacks and crowd control animations, and it's not exactly as the recoil, since the recoil is an animation itself, but also heats when you block correctly and a crowd control animation doesn't trigger, but in a very small quantity. Also, Force should be a long-term resource, that get’s empty slowly and regenerates at a low rate, faster if you crouch (medium rate) or specially if you meditate (fast rate). Mishap, on the other hand, should be a meter that would heat, not deplect, and it would heat in just a wrong blocked hit, or maybe a couple of them, and also turn back to normal very quick. A combo of not very powerful hits, in best of cases. Mishap/balance should be something like the meter that with each wrong block heats a lot, and that until is behind certain level, you can’t “perfect block” that would be the reduction applied to the hit damage when correctly facing the hit. This means that if you get a wrong hit, you might have your guard break if Mishap is over certain level. Now in a guard break, you can “autoblock”, as said, but as a lifeline measure, and the Force cost of it should be increased, but you can’t block properly. You can’t perfect block. This way, you create a climatic fighting style, where it revolves all around doing several attacks to knock out of guard your enemy, deplect it’s Force Points (or block points) and finally one-strike him. Also, when your mishap get’s to 100, you would be superbreaked and you wouldn’t be able to block, not even to autoblock, and you would be open to a single-hit kill, this would help to avoid having mishap extremely heated and not giving a damn as long as you have Force to autoblock. Now, this division in two resources, help us to create several strategies to beat the enemy defense, you can either try to max Mishap and give a fatal blow as soon as posible, you might center around depleting Force Points by making the enemy block bad a lot of times very fast but not powerful attacks that are unpredictable, you might revolve around making Mishap a bit high to a certain level, so the enemy can’t perfect block and therefore chunk over Force Points faster. You could try to create openings from the first second of the combat, trying to control a lot the blade of the opponent so you can deliver a quick fatal strike before he recovers the balance… For this, the first moments of a knockback, stagger, etc, might make the character unable to autoblock, leaving it open to a very fast attack. The higher the mishap, the higher the time where you can’t autoblock, up to a momment where it’s the whole knockback animation and the animation is also longer (superbreak). Being hit while running should be something to consider. Being able to perfect block with facing shouldn't be possible, and even when reducing the penalization a bit, autoblock should trigger. Not only that, triggering autoblock when running should almost max your Mishap and even throw you to the ground if the hit is too powerfull. ATTACKING IN JKA BASE AND CHANGES TO BE MADE So now that we have the blocking solved, acquiring a pace where blocking is the core and we have to try and block the attacks. Now is time to review the attacks. Attacks in JKA base are way too fast to be able to follow them and block them properly, and lot of times they are difficult to trace properly. So IMO, the attacks should be in a slower pace. In this regard, SJE has made a really good job, finding the proper pace to make the game feel fast paced yet all about control. Maybe very little slower pace than it's SP version would work nice in the system we are developing here. Another thing that SJE managed to do in a great way, is to add the "attack from the guard" feature. This is, attacking from a guarding position without having to do all the windup move, saving some nice FPS, and making countering more in control of the user and even giving the possibility to proc a fast attack without parrying first, simply by being in a defensive position. Now, this is one of the most revolutionary changes into JKA, made by SJE, and is a credit it deserves. It turns a game that is all about calculating moves to clash swords middle air and put your enemy out of the way in a game that is more about attacking faster than your enemy and in a way that you can't anticipate. Now this has the advantage of creating tense momments where players look to each other before attacking, calculate the next enemy attack and try to not get hit while they try to do so. That's exactly what IMO, a Star Wars duel should feel like. While blocking might be more forgiving, getting hit while you miss your hit should be the most punished thing, leading this to games where you try to calculate when the enemy is going to hit. To help this less punishing, is a good idea to add attack cancels, that is attacking cancel into a defensive position by pressing or holding block. This way, you can still react when you see your attack was wrong, but will probably be punished since you won't be able to perfect block the enemy attack, this is, either facing or matching the correct directional blocking. Lastly, I actually miss a lot having a stab maneuver. While SJE adds a rolling stab that you can actually proc even before the roll animation (cutting the rol animation into the stab maneuver at any time), SJE still doesn't have a button to make a stab attack, that would be a HUGE improvement into JKA, and would also add a button to use in conjuction with attack and defense, so that attack + stab would do a thing, defense + stab would do another... We also need to give a review at kicking, something that again SJE seems to do really good, giving the possibility to kick the enemy in several ways with a single button. CONCLUSSIONS My conclussions in ideas for this game is that we should look to what other mods have done right and build over that base including the missing things in those mods. In this regard, I've mentioned SJE several times. Even when we know that is a mod that some people of this community have had problems with it's creator, it has done several things good, specially in the reggard of making middle animation cuts, giving more control over the player, like is the case of attacks from the guard, pressing block to defend cutting the attack animation (something I had also seen in other mod) and adding and cutting some animations like running tumble into stab animation. To be honest, is difficult to be able to explain the concept I have for the sabersystem without having experienced before SJE, since I feel it is an attempt on correcting things I don't like in it's sabersystem and managing them in a different way, adding also some other concepts I've liked from other games or own vanilla game. The idea is to make an instinctive, fun to play game that is, like real fencing and swordplaying, easy to learn, but difficult to master, but that centers, over all, in that precise concept, instinct and knowing how to play with timings and tempos in a saberfight. Knowing when and how to attack and defend, doing it with the easiest control feature. In this regard, for example, I see that manual blocking (when holding block button) should be controlled by mouse movement, since it would split movement from defending, and would use the same concept of "moving the mouse towards the attack" as the facing blocking (passive, no button, idle blocking) does. It would be nice to try and develop, in that way, a system that allows to change the different directions of the manual blocking with a mouse, and with an aim deadzone, a zone where you move the saber without moving the camera. Might be difficult but is totally worth it. So this is essentially my idea of sabersystem, I hope you imagined it more or less good, and if you have any doubt, I will be eagering to answering it here, or in the discord. Cya mates, and... May the Force be with you!!

Oh, man, such a pitty. I know for good that MD II had some good ideas, specially in animations, but I do think that there should be something else than animations, but a strategy behind it, so that each style and character is played different way. This way the game would be even more enjoyable. I am currently in contact with someone that is developing his own engine, but actually would be nice to know if he could add some of your animations, or either if he would even be able to work along with you. I do think that all the cool projects of making a new Jedi Knight Academy mode should work as one, in order to make one mod. One to rule them all and tie them deep into the dark side. Ok, no. But you get what I mean. One to be the mod of the mods. The one that will be almost as a new game, leaving every other behind. Would be cool.

Why not? It would be fun... Could your animations be used in other mod along with my ideas? Would you give permission? I mean, it would be such of a good thing as not to do it.

I've got a suggestion to make in order to make the mod more skill-leaned. It's about a sabersystem that empathizes perfect blocks in a Movie Battles close style (looking with mouse) or either with manual block. But instead of using the Blocking Points resources, using the mishap meter of OJP (which in fact would be hide from the player). Autoblocking animations are triggered at cost of Force Points. The higher the mishap, the higher the loss of points (2 x mishap multiplier, starting in x0 from 0-9 mishap, x1 from 10 to 19, x2 if 20-29, etc). Also, your bounces and staggers will be longer depending on your mishap multiplier. Last thing is that mishap goes down very slow, but can be make to go faster by clicking fast defense button, at cost of not defending, of course. Also, strong styles (red, purple) will make more mishap damage, while fast ones will do less mishap damage, but trigger faster the autoblocking animations, and would be more difficult to perfect block. PB would stop triggering the autoblocking, avoiding then to loose Force Points and to mishap go higher. A couple of things more are in my mind.

Thanks Ramikad! I understand now pretty much.

Ok. I have a question here. What does OpenJK adds over vanilla JA? Server stability or is a Enhance to the gameplay? Does OpenJK add manual blocking or any other features a mod would add or it depends on the different mods BUILD OVER OpenJK, being OpenJK a sort of open vanilla code? For example, I know OJP added some variables that the original game didn't have. I don't know if OpenJK really modifies the gameplay of the game or if it only is some kind of community where the code is free to use to add then specific enhances to the original gameplay. I would like to know an online web where it is said what OpenJK does, or some place to download the readme without having to download the full OpenJK code.

Ok Serenity might have modified OJP. Is fine for me. Tweaks are not random, in my opinion. And no, the topic is not EoC infringement in fact, since this topic was created to draw people into EoCIV. You devirtued the topic, that was EoC IV announcement. If you want to talk about EoC IV infringement of copyright, go other thread. I am respecting the topic far more than you. However, I am starting to belive that there really is some kind of conspiration against EoC IV. I don't respect what Serenity did, but the mod might be passing onto Matt since Serenity doesn't respond, and Matt will try to credit everyone on the mod. About the license, all has been said. If it's made over OJP, is of free to use and be modified as long as there is no intent of earning money with it, although if I wanted to donate someone to them, I would be on my right, btw. So, everything is pretty clear now. EoC IV will try to redeem itself, and you better give it a second opportunity, or you will be speaking by ourselves about what kind of person you are trying to make collapse a mod with a bright future on sight, instead of leaving all in peace. Good night and have fun playing. And @@Darth Futuza, thanks for the link to the other thread, I will give it a look. Edit: Gave a look. I already posted in that thread. Not very much was said, and well, there says that EoC III was built over OJP. I am not sure if EoC IV is made over OJP too or not. Might be using some things of OJP over the released base code, and some tweaks added by serenity to all of this, and I can't find any infringement over there. As much, not saying the license that is released over (GNU GPLv2), and that can be corrected aswell. Seems everything is pretty clear now, at least to me.

About hit detection, I hope they have better, in fact last time I played I remember it a little bit better than before. By flickering I mean that when two sabers in the guard get closer (not even clashing), the saber does a strange animation, which is used to start a... half-swing, was named? Adding a lot of confusion in fast interchange of hits and making it not very movie realistic. The whole thing of the game is about spamming combos each time you attack, as seen here https://youtu.be/ClnMyn8FtFg?t=3m20s or here https://youtu.be/ClnMyn8FtFg?t=3m23s which is not very movie like. In movies, each time your saber hits an enemy, you get a big rebound. You aint getting the opportunity to spam the saber as seen there, like doing various attacks on a row and spamming the attack combo onto the enemies face. That won't happen in EoCIV. Each time your saber is hit, it gets a rebound, you cannot spam the attack. I've some sparring in real life and EoCIV is more realistic. Much more. @@eezstreet, let's make a deal. I try JKG sabersystem, but you try EoCIV one, and see what ideas you can take outta there. I don't care a damn thing about serenity (I do about Matt) and I have my reasons, but I gotta recognize that the sabersystem in general, the collisions, the pacing, etc., are interesting enough to give them a look and try to replicate some of them. And trust me. You block better if you don't run. Have you done real life saber fighting? I've done, and I can guaranteed that it has a lot to do with your breath, same as pointing a gun to somebody. It has to do with FOCUS, and focus is lost if you sprint, your heart beats faster and you have to take your breath again. So yeah, I think it should be better if running, sprinting, Force Powers, and autoblocking were needed to have Force Points up (Let's say stamina points instead or focus points) and not adding a bar of Blocking Points. I don't say I am not going to like your sabersystem, which I might, and in fact I am almost sure I'll do for what I've heard. What I try to say is that I've tried EoCIV one and is interesting, and aswell as I may like JKG sabersystem, you might like EoCIV one. As a developer, is my opinion that you should draw inspiration for other existing mods, even those you have been having problems with. Never underestimate someone's work, even your rivals. At the beginning, I also thought that using Force Points as Blocking Points would be a bad idea, trust me. Well... I tried EoCIV, and now I am completely convinced of the opposite. Might have a reason, don't you think so? Tell me where I can download JKG, and I'll give it a try.

Well, what about the collision system? Never liked MBII because of that. Flickering is annoying as fuck. And half the time, the saber passed through the enemy, not slashin' him. About the three bars you saw... That was back in EoCII. EoC III used blocking points too. EoCIV uses Force Points as Blocking points, I put here an example for you. So... why don't simply use ForcePoints for blocking as done in EoCIV? I don't mean using Block Points for Force Powers, I talk you about using Force Points for autoblocking, which is mostly the opposite. If Force Points are used FOR EVERYTHING, running, acrobatics, ForcePowers, autoblocking and attacking you won't want to run while on a duel. Neither jump. Neither almost anything outta block or attack. You could keep de DFA's and people would be very selective on using them if they drain too much Force. Only when they raised their Force Points pool, they would dare to use acrobatics. Do you get what I mean? If you make Force Points used for everything, people would need to MANAGE THEM. If in adition you can replicate the rest of the sabersystem as seen in the video, trust me, you would have a great system. Think about that, you've got the solution at your sight.

I always get confused between OJP and OpenJK.

This has a bitter taste of me. I've seen this mod grow, and I know for good that Serenity is been working on it. I guess that even though, he really has taken some work from someone else. I attach it to mistakes, or to not being aware of how things work, but after so much read here, I am starting to fear this is not true. We the players, have done a small community, and even though the game has a lot of bugs, it is true that the sabersystem saw in game has received tweaks and feels kinda smooth. Can you confirm me this is the OpenJK system with just a few tweaks? I in fact missed many things, and being realistic, I've never known why some bugs were not corrected. Seing things now with perspective makes me sad. I will still support and play the mod for the momment, but if you confirm me there are almost no differences between this mod and OpenJK sabersystem... then I would surely get angered. I tell is mediocre game because they have gotten numb. Last time I played to see if something change, no, nothing had change. The game is still based on bad saber collisions and on saber flickering, while EoCIV trully feels like playing with a Jedi (although it has bugs). MBII has stand so long because of his community and because it was the first big mod for the game, but in fact the way of dueling is pretty buggy. Everything is based on the f*ckin saber flickering when the two sabers collide and that is ANTICLIMATIC. That said, I must admit that MBII has a superb game design, and I really like it, but they've never tried to fix that buggy style of combat. I don't like it, is not intuitive, neither realistic. Serenity Sabersystems with the game design of MBII would be great, honestly. And @@eezstreet, you should take a look on EoCIV. May have content from other people, but the sabersystem is really cool. The fact of using Force Points as Blocking Points adds some interest to the game in terms of strategy, and makes pretty much sense, as they could be understand as "Mental Fatigue points", since focusing on blocking a saber which is about to hit and do it instinctively, means accessing to the Force, and even if it was by pure reflexes, that means to focus on the battle, and that as well as doing Force Powers, tires anyone. FP are not then Force Points but... FOCUS POINTS. Moreover, I heard you wanted to do a simple saberstyle without DFA or acrobatic moves. I must say I don't agree with that. While I don't want a permarun game, removing contect is not the solution, imo. I can understand that you preffer the old movies duels, and even I do in some way, but I must recognice that the Episode I, II and III have a much better coreography, and, moreover, the Jedi and the sith were more skilled then. Episode IV, V and VI is about an old glory anakin which have gone rusty inside his armor, against more than a merely Jedi Knight, since I don't think Luke is trully a Jedi Master in the 6th episode. So which one is the solution? IMO, the solution is adding a upper class above styles called FORMS, that congregates various styles when "buying it" with exp points. This way, Ataru could be having yellow style, as well as shii-cho, but the yellow style of Ataru would be faster, hit stronger, and have DFA and bonus to Force Powers, while Shii-choo would not. Aswell, the game could be made like mmo with mastery trees for each Form, and so, some Forms would need to have some masteries from the other Forms to work. This way, let's take for example Form V: Djem So. It could feature red style, but to take it from this class, you would need to pick first yellow style from shii-choo, Form II phylosophy mastery that would make easier to redirect the hits, and Form III Soresu blocking mastery. And then you would be able to activate Form V. Aswell, to activate Red DFA in Form V, you would have need to have previously bought some mastery in Ataru which fuels your attacks with Force, etc. I see it like that since it is how happens in the Star Wars world, and in adittion you want to develop a mmo styled mod. If you did so, you would have a complexity building of things. But... really, remove blocking points. They are not necessary, and would give reason to players to pick things to make his Force Pull stronger. As well, it would give an explanation of why Grand Master are always better in saber combat than any other, even if they haven't specially trained it. They can focus more and better (have more focus points). Consider what I tell you.

I am done with this discussion. You all fools throwing hate. The fact is that serenity does NOT HAVE TIME to credit every single person. He doesn't want to hide the things, but he is acomplishing a lot of work alone, as long as he is the only developer for the mod. About EoC III, had a Documents folder with documents of OJP. Damn it, is not made ON PURPOSE. Stop acting so childish, some of you might have time to give credits, but Serenity doesn't have time TO ANYTHING. I haven't seen him in weeks. He has a life behind the pc, and you can't force him to give credits to everyone, when probably half of them have been lost cause he is handling a lot of stuff. He does not intentionally hide it, he isn't aswell such a active member of the communitty in what talking in forums is, and probably is not so much conscious of how the credit thing goes. HE DOES NOT THINK HE IS DOING SOMETHING BAD. In adittion, he is having his house flooded, he has more problems rather than giving credit to people who made work that is free to use. I think a lot of people has too much of an ego, and want to be credited for everything. Maybe he is not as much as clear as he should be, but he doesn't even think about it. As someone said in this thread before, some mods have done much damage to the community by stealing content and claiming as own, and that has make some serious wounds to the community, and now you all judge each mod and developer who doesn't credit everything as a bad guy and throw rocks on him. Evolution of Combat has it's own small community, and we do know that he "steals" things from other. Not exactly stealing, cause he doesn't claim ownity. As I told before, we everyone know it's not it's job, and we don't care that much who is it. This is the net, the files are free. On the other hand, I must recognize that even I thought is not a priority and it should not be, is always a sign of good education to thanks everyone that has helped you to help the mode or that you have taken work from. And he should state which is the source of his sabersystem, which has, without doubt, a lot of effort and time dedicated on it, is not just that he renamed OJP or OpenJK or whatever. I've seen different features of the game grow with pass of time and I know for good that he has some work behind it, but HE MUST GIVE SOME CREDIT. This said, I am with everyone claiming a response from Serenity, and when he gives, I think all this mess will be cleaned up. I hope you all to be comprehensive with it's situation and it's working phylosophy, cause that's what life is about. Comprehension and good intentions. No one here wanted to cause any harm, so let's chill and be all friends. Lastly, I wanted to make a petition here. I want Serenity and Eezstreet to solve their difference and try to make a huge mod that takes away MBII. As a player, I've been a mediocre mode as MB II (in what saber collision reffers) growing a lot more than it deserves. Evolution of Combat is a good mod. Unfinished, unpolished, has many flaws. But is a good mod. And JKG is ambitious. If you stop throwing shit each other, maybe you can do something big that reunites all the insatisfied MBII players (which are many) and get yourself a community and a name. Moreover, if you work together on a common project, no one will be stealing shit out of anyone. On the other hand, you can all keep acting childish and force players to divide, and MBII, a game which has even worst collision than base JA, will keep on being the most renowned mod of JA without deserving it. It is your fucking choice, but have in mind that a lot of unsatisfied players have the eyes on you.

And in fact I would say I enjoy chivalry more than BS. In fact is a game I enjoyed a lot. The problem with chivalry is that it has very limited movement. But is fun enough, though

Is this base JKA with different models and maps? Or is here any mod changing the saber mechanichs? P.D.: Ki Adi Mundi video was removed.

If I will play Battlefront? Well, it depends if sabersystem is worth off or just a hack n' slash crap. I don't want to play a God of War saber combat style. And I think I guess that's what I will be having. So I may play it, for sure I will TRY it (in case my video card doesn't explode with it), but that doesn't mean I will play it very much. Aswell, if I try it, it will be in a free try that EA gives, as I've done with the mecha games they released (can't remember the name right now). Or as I did with Battlefield 3. My current thinking is that for playing Battlefront, I can play Battlefield. If the only difference I will have is blaster instead bullets, x-wings instead planes, and a couple of Jedi that features a hack n' slash system... Well I preffer to stay in JKA mods like EoC or OJP, and play Battlefield in the case I want to play some war game. So I will be waiting for the reviews.