Starkiller's Backhand Saber Style

[ChalklYne]

As of right now I have permission from @@katanamaru to use his very nice backhand saber style for the mod. I will be adding a few anims to it as well such as a few different swings into a faked combo system, the dash, the repulse, and a taunt or 2. The faked combo system is something I did like a year ago, where I had every directional attack perform a combo of 2 swings, in some cases 3. so when you hold up+attack, then upleft+attack, he goes through quite a bit of attacks. the transitions were a problem, but I ended up making him end every attack sequence back in base pos which seemed ok. I didnt have any parrys though. I was hoping the community could give some ideas about how that functions.

[katanamaru]

If you want more swings per input here's an idea I've been toying with. For a couple of styles I planned on putting attacks in the transitions. So a 2 input combo would make 3 swings. Not perfect for the button presses, but it is something new.

 

For parries I also planned to make a soresu style that had a block followed by an attack animation. So that when form 3 blocked they could counter-attack right away based on where they just parried and attacking where the opponent was open.

 

For Juyo I planned to combine both those ideas.

Feel free to try them out if that will help you.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the dash!

 

Once I get XSI figured out I'll still and try to make a repulse. Then you can use which ever you like.

[CaptainCrazy]

Awesome i can't wait to see what you come up with

 

I used to use XSI a lot years ago but mainly for animation and a bit of modeling, but i leave the modeling to Maya and 3DS Max xD

[minilogoguy18]

@@CaptainCrazy it's good to know Softimage for this engine since it's what the devs used and it can guarantee working models and animations with the only issues being if you did something wrong. Even the free Mod Tool version can be used.

[CaptainCrazy]

@@CaptainCrazy it's good to know Softimage for this engine since it's what the devs used and it can guarantee working models and animations with the only issues being if you did something wrong. Even the free Mod Tool version can be used.

 

 

IF you're working with any devs, if you're working solo then it's no big deal.

[minilogoguy18]

What I meant was with 3ds max and Maya you'll struggle to get working models, Archangel has been working on a plugin for 3ds max but it still has some small issues it seems and not sure whether it works for all versions.

 

Maya is a total mystery, been years since I've seen anyone attempt to get a working JA model from Maya.

 

There is Blender if you can get the plugin to work and also deal with it's terrible interface.

 

The compiler from JA takes a native Softimage format which is what makes it so easy, I also have used custom bipeds that I made in Softimage for animation without issue. Only was saying that if you know Softimage it helps a ton since it's the most sure fire way to make a model/animation work in JA properly.

[Tempust85]

XSI is the ideal solution for JKA, but 3ds Max will work just as good now thanks to the exporter plugin fixes.

 

In the end though, it all comes down to what you prefer to use.

[Setlec]

If you want more swings per input here's an idea I've been toying with. For a couple of styles I planned on putting attacks in the transitions. So a 2 input combo would make 3 swings. Not perfect for the button presses, but it is something new.

 

For parries I also planned to make a soresu style that had a block followed by an attack animation. So that when form 3 blocked they could counter-attack right away based on where they just parried and attacking where the opponent was open.

 

For Juyo I planned to combine both those ideas.

Feel free to try them out if that will help you.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the dash!

 

Once I get XSI figured out I'll still and try to make a repulse. Then you can use which ever you like.

You know that somehow made me think of the game Brink by Splash Damage. their SMART button that enable new moves depending of your location, speed and etc. we could have some thing like but only for animations/moves.

 

OK picture yourselves having a specific combat style and using a smart thingy that allows you to have more moves only available with that combat style. while the input would be increased by more key we could use mouse key additional side key to use this things while we avoid having more Keyboard keys input.

 

 

Does that makes sense to you?

[katanamaru]

Vaguely. But since you gave the game's name I'll look it up and see what you mean.

[ChalklYne]

@@katanamaru 's probably gunna kill me... but i think Starkiller should have 2 single backhand styles. One faster and one stronger/slower. The faster mode allows the faked combat system we were theorizing, and the strong can have a nice knockback and push efx for some swings, and a lightning splash for others with a splash damage and faked arcing lightning spread. I am working with someone right now on advanced macros for jka so we could have it where you tap the button for fast swings and hold it for the stronger ones. I am already in development and working with someone over having these advanced macros for a fully functioning charge push/reg push, charged repulse/reg repulse, and if lightning is held for more than a few seconds, it swaps to 2 handed lightning. All charged moves will have more damage/knockback.

 

Also, with these advanced macros, I am trying to incorporate where you can tap w,a,s,d, and it will dodge in that respective direction.. and if held it will walk. Possible double tap w or s to run in that dirction. Eliminating the use of a walk/run or use button giving you more fluid and controllable movement.

 

Personally, that's the best way I have thought about properly utilizing the dodge and walk anims, and having more control over your saber combat without a bunch of button presses. 

 

I also wanted to swap the fast kata to a faster closer saber throw more like TFU with no control over it once it leaves your hand. Just in one nice circle and back to you. For a faster saber throw leaving you less vulnerable.

 

As for the strong kata, possibly a "rage" anim set. In tfu2, when you are enraged, you fight with your sabers just using the force not touching them at all.. That would be a nice strong kata, just a few attacks where the saber is floating around him 360 degrees just clearing a circle around you

[katanamaru]

Rzzlin frazzlin nogood grumble grumble...

 

Dang I thought I was (mostly) done with the backhand styles. I planned to revisit them when I had more skill later. I'm just not sure of what else to do with a heavy style. I was racking my brain for some of those moves. Any ideas or details on what it would be like? Remember in the TFU games his combos involve spinning the saber to a forward position by about the third swing.

 

I may get the demo again and see how he does his attacks again.

 

You're macro ideas are intriguing.

[ChalklYne]

I have also, found out a way to record a video of you doing saber swings, then make a custom rig setup for the program im using to coincide with jka's skele, tag your bones to the bones in jka, and it will convert the video into mocap data... then that mocap info can be imported into softimage and transferred to the rig. So no worries @@katanamaru I might have a way easier way for you... Just be prepared to clear some space in your living room man =)

 

http://ipisoft.com/

 

you will need 2 kinect sensors though... or 4 webcams. But I will provide those 2 kinect sensors and mail em to you. Or just bring em by in a few months. I found the kinect sensors for like 45 bucks a peice so no worries I will provide. You can keep em after this mod as well, since you are the most qualified person to have this setup

 

Let's go ahead and take this engine to the next level =)

[katanamaru]

And even more interesting news!

[katanamaru]

Definetly add some sticks. Just make sure the are long enough for two-handed grips.

[ChalklYne]

the size of the sticks wont matter. once you track it and tag it to that tag, it will be fine. you can use tennis balls if you wanted rofl I don't have kinect sensors yet to get the rig set up for you and ensure the fingers/ feet will operate correctly. It will take some tweaking i'd imagine... But... the thing is really easy to set up and is just waiting on the video input. I just want to make sure it wont have to be gone back over and cleaned up after everythings said and done. I want it to record correctly the first time. I will be keeping you updated when I get to that point... but will get the kinect sensors soon so we can start workin out the bugs. 

[ChalklYne]

So I just uvmapped the TIE facility exterior(unrelated but gahhhhh) Using 2 textures too...

 

Back to the topic at hand... I just found out the entire system of transferring the mocap data between rigs. 

Not that I will be doing much transferring except for just once really...since our mocap data will be recorded directly onto a jka compatible rig. But heres the info I found out on this subject if anyone is interested in learning. It is for Softimage

 

Each link has it's own sub-system of tutorials explaining all the different ways you'd need to know about. It was very self explanitory and definitely a good read for anyone interested.

 

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/xsidocs/char_mocap_MotionCaptureOverview.htm

 

The software I'll be using to capture the mocap data

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCu8KTrC4sc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvRP7qXCBCA

 

The hands will not be captured very well from the few videos I've seen. I'll have to bug corto or mini one day when I get to that point and see how to get those nice finger controls going again and that'll make fixing that much easier

 

Also, since the program accepts .fbx and I think that will be my best bet for swapping between programs, then I am concerned about using any custom jka rig that has foot rolls and constraints and such. Maybe just the regular jka bones and tags and go into ipi and tag each spot as I want it. Then I will not be worried about the animations importing weird when I get back into softimage with it. I have also found this website of these people who will work with your mocap data for you for free? if any of you have a kinect sensor and some time, check this website out. They'll hook you up with a .fbx of all of your mocap data for free. Then use that first link I posted to transfer it to a jka rig. badass stuff here man

 

http://www.freemocap.com/

 

Check em out

[ChalklYne]

Any ideas or details on what it would be like? Remember in the TFU games his combos involve spinning the saber to a forward position by about the third swing.

Exactly. I have millions of ideas for his saber style.

Here try and follow me.

You're Starkiller.

Hold your saber out in front of you in a backhand stance. Now open your palm (because you have the force)... the saber stays there. Now rotate it (via the force) into a forward gripping position. He can do that seemlessly so things like forward swings are encouraged. Also. Not only can he swap to a forward gripping stance... but he can sit there and spin it like that all day. So imagine the typical Starkiller swing... now stop before you start your return.. and instead of just bringing the saber back with you.. spin it like that in front of your face a few times on the return.  Things like this. I tend to think of his mindframe at about this time in TFU...He has ripped Destroyers out the sky with his bare hands, mashed through thousands of stormies unscathed, and can smack around legends such as Kota and Shaak Ti without a scratch. He's gotta be cocky right about now. Show a bit of taunting in these swings. A bit of cocky/wise if you know what I mean. Also... dont just think Starkiller... Remember how Anakin fights? That behind the back craziness? He was trained by him. Take things into consideration like the fact that he was taken as a child, and told to kill everyone who sees him there can not be any survivors. If you wanted to train someone like that how would they fight? No wounding. He is bred for killing. He should effortlessly go from a decapitation backhand swing right through the neck, back through the stomache cutting them in half. Take advantage of the dismemberment and show a killer. Also, try and make it seem rather effortless to him. No big crazy body movements unless they're needed to achieve the angle of the swing. He can stand still and block blaster bolts all day. So I'd imagine his swings are just so baked into his brain that its like speaking to him. He talks in decapitation. So don't try to imagine Starkiller. Try to imagine Leatherface with a lightsaber. Then incorporate the years of knowledge Anakin learned from Obi and the rest of the council. He should be the best of both worlds.  Also, something I haven't seen done yet, swap hands. Mid swing just swap to the left hand. Things like that. A taunt/fake swing right before a killer blow would be awesome too. Just freak these stormies out. He needs to represent hatrid, with a lightsaber as a part of him. Don't think Star Wars. Think die. just die. So I can move on and kill the next one. The killing can't take long because I still have millions to kill after you. And you all deserve it. Thats Starkiller

[katanamaru]

I like the idea of spinning the saber like a buzz saw in front of him.

Putting attacks in the returns would allow for the head then stomach shot move you described.

Cocky will be something new to try. I always go for 'focused' to show how fighting is a thinking and stressful situation. One not to be taken likely.

I'm also picturing General Grievous fighting for inspiration.

 

I'll start the brainstorming process.

[ChalklYne]

Perect yeah you got me. Also I was watching this. Tons of this guys swings can be incorporated and tweaked especially that first style

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqxDbwiKGik

 

 

Only reason I say cocky is because from the book so far it just seems like he knows they're all gunna die, and he just has the skill to pull it off. That's why I say cocky/wise. He wouldn't be cocky enough to pull of anything too foolish... but taunts and things are encouraged because it says vader didn't let him have a fighting style. He taught them all to starkiller, then made him develop from them his own style as to not be like any other of the jedi's previous adversaries. Also, Vader encouraged the backhand stance because it struck fear and confusion and caught the attacker offguard for a second. It is said that his defense, was the grip and the ability to stop motion in its tracks via the force. It is said in the book and on Wookiepedia that his defense was being always on the offense. he was taught to use grip, choke, push, pull, all at the same time as his saber. So i'd imagine he wasn't too worried about form as much as he was murder

[ChalklYne]

Heres what I was theorizing last night. You know how he charges a force push? Then it sits in his hands for a few seconds just a ball of compressed energy? If he focused, couldn't he hold that ball out in front of him? Essentially, couldnt he charge up a push, and throw it wherever he wanted creating sort of a force thermal detonator? We could take a weapon out of the game, and give it to Starkiller. Make the weapon model his saber and the regular idle saber stance his weapon stance. then he could throw these force balls, as the Alt+fire, then shoot a small directed beam of lightning as the regular fire? It would be cool to take his style 1 step furhter because except for the first few minutes of the TIE facility, i want the rest to feel like a new TFU game.

 

Also, his repulse... he's gunna have maybe 5 or 6 different repulses. From the original, to one while running, to a "ground pound" like Jax from mortal kombat. His repulse in order to work correctly, has to take out one of his saber styles. So if I make the desann saber style his repulse, I have all of the attacks in that style that I can make different repulses and such. It would be cool to be able to repulse a few different ways depending on the situation

[ChalklYne]

Start this video at about 2:40 and you can see this fat kid swap between backhand right to a forward left real quick. It was unintentional, but theres an example of something new to try

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TndD6Z_xP9w&feature=player_embedded

[ChalklYne]

Cocky will be something new to try. I always go for 'focused' to show how fighting is a thinking and stressful situation. One not to be taken likely.

I've been thinking for a minute heavily on what you said. Here's what i have gathered...

Trained by Anakin, he is probably one of the best saber fighters out there. And, you are right fightning is a thinking situation.

 

In the book, it says he can feel the hulls and even the bolts and fasteners in the destroyer as he is bringing it down... he can actually sense the screws. Now think kamino... he is walking through Kamino, bending the steel as he passes it. His lady is dead. he is dead technically. he has no past but torture and now just wants to see people die. i'd imagine even for a jedi, his mind is elsewhere in battle. Id imagine him leaving himself open to a lot of attacks rather than being slow and calculating.

 

Let's put it into perspective. Imagine the most advance shaolin monk swordfighter ever. Now drag his family outside by their hair and stomp their heads into the rocks and burn them. Would his style change a bit as he ran at you with his katana?

 

Starkiller has never met an opponent who made him actually try very hard. he's used to just pwning people in the first few seconds. All of his training was not like regular training though and was compared more as torture. So he isn't able to be so enraged that he forgets his training... its baked in, but he kind of disobeys it at times is what I've come to think. So how does this all help with creating his style?

He has no style. And he has every style. Pure creative freedom with no regards for human life or defensive maneuvering. Anything goes. Front style, backhand, right hand, left hand... just get creative and remember none of the moves should injure. annihilate 

[ChalklYne]

I think this video illustrates these points very well and should be taken highly into consideration.

Especially the cocky/wise combination I was trying to portray

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmZbV6uN6qY

[Seven]

We really still need this. Who's good at animations?

[ChalklYne]

With @@minilogoguy18's new animation rig for Softimage, anyone can be good at animations. If someone hasnt tackled it by the time I get there, ill just do that too. @@katanamaru has been back recently, but im not sure if he uses softimage for animating yet or is still on dragon, as this anim set would take eons less time to do in Softimage with mini's rig. Also... i would like to add in the cloth simulation and just do his entire anim stack from scratch. So id rather not have someone trying to do this unless they know how to do it this way, or else ill just have to redo it anyway.

 

Maybe if we can get mini to do a simple walk cycle with the cloth bones, i can take it from there