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Lancelot

Let's talk about Star Wars Legends/the Expanded Universe

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Greetings, my friends. This topic is dedicated to all the fans of the Star Wars Legends continuity in all its forms, be it comics, books or even games.

One more thing: Keep it civil, guys. Talk about what you want (so long as it's EU/Legends related) and have fun.

 

Personally, I am not really into the Legends continuity. While I have watched the Ewok films and played many of the games outside of the Jedi Knight series (Republic Commando, KotOR, The Force Unleashed, Shadows of the Empire and the Rogue Squadron games), I have payed little attention to other material. I own several books, but I never finished them. Star Wars is always supposed to be visual for me, and I find it hard to imagine new characters if I don't have a visual basis to work with. But who knows, maybe I get over it one day and start the books again.

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What's your favorite thing from Legends?

I'd have to say KOTOR 1 & 2 are up there for me, although I think my top overall stories are probably the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest books. I love the TPM time period, when Jedi were abundant but not at war. They were more like sheriffs of the galaxy, rather than generals of an army. Really hope we get that in canon with the High Republic era.

I haven't read it in awhile, but one of my favorite books is in the post-ROTJ era called The New Rebellion. It's kind of a standalone story, but is still connected with the overarching narrative of the books of it's era. Highly recommend it.

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8 hours ago, Circa said:

What's your favorite thing from Legends?

I'd have to say KOTOR 1 & 2 are up there for me, although I think my top overall stories are probably the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest books. I love the TPM time period, when Jedi were abundant but not at war. They were more like sheriffs of the galaxy, rather than generals of an army. Really hope we get that in canon with the High Republic era.

I haven't read it in awhile, but one of my favorite books is in the post-ROTJ era called The New Rebellion. It's kind of a standalone story, but is still connected with the overarching narrative of the books of it's era. Highly recommend it.

Love the TPM-not-at-war period. Good times.

Like, there's stuff on Malastare so they all go there. There's an uprising from the Yinchorri so let's take care of that! It's nice to see them take care of the galaxy, rather than being cornered into fighting a war.

Also, I'm a sucker for the Legacy era.

Off the top of my head, one of my favorite books from Legends has to be... it's a tie between Dark Rendezvous and Darth Plagueis. Love 'em both!

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I always had a liking  toward the Knights of the Old Republic series, Shadows  of the Empire, the Thrawn Trilogy, The Dark Forces Saga, and Dark Empire.

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I am very selective when it comes to the old EU of Star Wars as I do agree with some people that for every good story, game, or idea, there were dozens of average or even bad ones.

One of my frustrations sometimes was with the EU were the retcons or trying to connect unrelated things to another which the Lucas groups did in, apparently with the idea that this would make the universe more "fit" together.
It meant that sometimes good ideas were tied into very bad ones such as Admirla Fyyar and Desann were suddenly connected to Hethir's Empire Reborn from Star Wars the Crystal Star.

While there was very ridiculous stuff that was clearly aimed at a younger audience, material intended for teens and older became so increasingly serious that a lot of the imagination and possibilities of the SW universe became lost, especially when it became more about war or what seemed to be the eternal conflict between the Jedi and the Sith. Star Wars was more than just that.

For me my favorite period is the Galactic Civil War and the New Republic Era, and slightly before ANH. I also liked the KOTOR game era but TOR not so much (various recycled plotlines and plot devices), and I thought the New Sith Wars era (Knight Errant) held some promise.
The Dawn of the Jedi era had potential but it was quickly finished up.

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SWTOR is definitely weak on the storytelling side, but I think that's partially because of how much they had to cram into it. I don't really use that as an excuse though, I think they could have focused less on rehashing previous plot points and focus more on original ones. They eventually did that well with the KOTFE and KOTET. Playing the launch content and even the 2 expansions after, then comparing to everything released after KOTFE, it's like they actually took their own game and writing skills seriously.

There are still some great stuff in the launch content, but not a whole lot. I personally never considered SWTOR canon, even before the Disney takeover. They went a little crazy with a lot of the plots, where it just seems way too much like...well like a "legend" that kids grow up telling. Maybe some stuff happened, but were told with great exaggeration. If those things actually happened the way they did, the galaxy would have grown up learning it and nobody would bat an eye by the time the Death Star was made in the films' era. I view it as just a fun environment to play as your own character, go through some fun and exciting (sometimes boring) stories, play with friends, etc. It's definitely a fun game to play for that experience. I'm not an MMO fan at all either, so I play mostly alone (sometimes have a friend or two to do some missions with, but mostly solo) and they actually did a decent job of making it playable as a singleplayer RPG. Just makes me really want a new open world (or open galaxy, technically) Star Wars RPG though. That's literally what every SW fan wants. Just think of the money they'd make on such a thing.

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Hello Circa,

Sorry for the late response.

There you mention some of the things I feel that did not help make SWTOR an interesting Star Wars game on its own. How some of these campaign storylines went, exaggerated story telling as you described it.

But also a rehash of a lot of elements from the Original Trilogy time period.

Sometimes I felt that SWTOR, at least the base game had to many plot lines and plot devices we had already seen before in the rest of the old EU.

And also the large amount of them, being throw so rapidly one after another.

The plot device of super weapons really went into overdrive.

Now I do not hate stories involving superweapons as long as they are told well and it is done sparingly.

But as you said, if people remembered that these devices had been around and been used during an interstellar war that affected most of the galaxy, or it was recorded in historical records the creation of the Death Star and what is was capable off would hardly concidered to be something new.

Sure there has not been a planet destroying super weapon in a “while” galactic history speaking but there have been quite some of them, and not all needed a moon sized mobile space station.

Even Dark Troopers are old news as the old Republic’s military had been working on super soldiers that can even take on Jedi and Sith.

I enjoyed that KOTOR2 moved away from this, being for the most part a more low key experience for the player character until the battle of Telos during which our earlier decisions and actions play an important role in a major confrontation between the Republic and Sith remnant.

The major battle feels more exciting because it is a rare thing and there is a build up towards it.

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Agreed. KOTOR 2 is one of the most grounded and gritty feeling Star Wars games. I think the biggest leap was Nihilus being able to consume entire worlds with the Force, but we didn’t get to see that power in action, just hear about it. Everything else was about mind games, investigating, and betrayal. It’s a shame the game wasn’t technically finished, but it’s still one of my favorite games of all time next to the first game. I actually prefer to play it without the restored content mod simply because I played it that way so many times growing up, but I do love it either way.

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I don't mind the plot device of Darth Nihilus being able to consume the life of entire worlds through the Force. It wasn't really a super weapon, it showed how powerful the Force can be, but also in my opinion made clear that Darth Nihilus was not human and more something like an Eldritch horror in the shape of a man.
I really liked some of the alternative ideas some people had for Nihilus, one of them for example being that he/it was the Dark side ghost of a dead world, now feeding on other worlds to fill its own emptiness.
Perhaps a bit too fantastic even for Star Wars but it would have put him on a whole different level of antagonist which he technically already is.

My main annoyance was that Drew Karpyshyn kind of stole this for the Sith Emperor/Vitiate. So it wasn't Nihilus feeding on worlds but this character in order to become a god.

Yep, as I mentioned before the storyline was a lot more low key and personal. The player and the party could get involved in situations such as the Dantooine civilian militia vs the mercenaries, the Civil War on Onderon between Queen Talia and the general, but there was no major galactic war taking place in the background. Rather the Republic and its worlds seeking to rebuild after going through a very destructive war while after effects of that such as displaced refugees, unemployed veterans and a collapse of the economy plague it.

Star Wars Jedi Outcast and Star Wars Jedi Academy are not really major conflicts either. Sure, Desann, Fyyar, and the Shadowtroopers could become a threat to the Republic if not stopped, as could Tavion and her Disciples of Ragnos be if they succeed in reviving Ragnos, but these are all more smaller conflicts.

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6 hours ago, TDG said:

I don't mind the plot device of Darth Nihilus being able to consume the life of entire worlds through the Force. It wasn't really a super weapon, it showed how powerful the Force can be, but also in my opinion made clear that Darth Nihilus was not human and more something like an Eldritch horror in the shape of a man.
I really liked some of the alternative ideas some people had for Nihilus, one of them for example being that he/it was the Dark side ghost of a dead world, now feeding on other worlds to fill its own emptiness.
Perhaps a bit too fantastic even for Star Wars but it would have put him on a whole different level of antagonist which he technically already is.

My main annoyance was that Drew Karpyshyn kind of stole this for the Sith Emperor/Vitiate. So it wasn't Nihilus feeding on worlds but this character in order to become a god.
 

Very true. I wish they had made Nihilus a bit more of a main villain to fear, after hearing how powerful he really was, defeating him was so simple and anticlimactic.

6 hours ago, TDG said:

Yep, as I mentioned before the storyline was a lot more low key and personal. The player and the party could get involved in situations such as the Dantooine civilian militia vs the mercenaries, the Civil War on Onderon between Queen Talia and the general, but there was no major galactic war taking place in the background. Rather the Republic and its worlds seeking to rebuild after going through a very destructive war while after effects of that such as displaced refugees, unemployed veterans and a collapse of the economy plague it.

Star Wars Jedi Outcast and Star Wars Jedi Academy are not really major conflicts either. Sure, Desann, Fyyar, and the Shadowtroopers could become a threat to the Republic if not stopped, as could Tavion and her Disciples of Ragnos be if they succeed in reviving Ragnos, but these are all more smaller conflicts.

I think that's why I like KOTOR2 so much. I tend to like the smaller, more relatable stories rather than the big galactic war. That's why I love the Mandalorian show so much as well. But for games, especially RPG's, it lets you connect with your character even more when your mission and storyline is personal and close to home. 

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3 hours ago, Circa said:

Very true. I wish they had made Nihilus a bit more of a main villain to fear, after hearing how powerful he really was, defeating him was so simple and anticlimactic.

Definitely can understand that one, the writers should really have him build more up before the final confrontation.
What ideas would you have had to really make him a threat but still have him be an enemy that can be defeated during a fight?

3 hours ago, Circa said:

I think that's why I like KOTOR2 so much. I tend to like the smaller, more relatable stories rather than the big galactic war. That's why I love the Mandalorian show so much as well. But for games, especially RPG's, it lets you connect with your character even more when your mission and storyline is personal and close to home. 

I share the same sentiments even when I don't watch the Mandalorian series. I enjoyed the Han Solo Adventures by Brian Daley for the same reason, just Han and Chewie and some friends/allies having adventures around the galaxy.

There is a place for a galactic war but Star Wars in general relied way too much on this as a background plot device and as a result it became a very tired thing.
I am trying to describe why a galactic war may make a good backdrop for action stories but sometimes less so for personal stories but I find that a bit difficult to back up with good arguments as it is not entirely true.
I just remain of the opinion that a galactic war sweeping the Star Wars galaxy is overused.

In KOTOR2 the shadow threat directly towards the player was much more interesting.

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True. Perhaps the suits at Lucasfilm and now Disney would argue that it's in the title of the franchise: Star Wars, which means it needs to be centered around war of some kind to live up to their expectation. Fans know that isn't the case but that's a somewhat valid case to be made I suppose.

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