Cerez

If you make it so. It doesn't have to be... :/ The ones hurt have already left you. I'm not going to go into a discussion again, Omicron. I was just answering Darth's call to confirm that I don't "hate" you all, and despite our differences I still appreciate this project.

I don't hate all of you Darth, but I'm beginning to really dislike a certain few and their attitude here -- you know who you are. And unfortunately the management seems to fully support their immature and ignorant ways, and tolerate the hurt they cause to others, so I'm not interested in being a part of this community anymore.

These are award-winning maps that are some of the best from the early days of JKA. I have contacted the author and he has agreed to have them re-hosted at JKHub as long as full credit is given. http://jediknight3.filefront.com/developer/Wedge2211;6662 One of them is the stormy weather screenshot you guys have seen as a "secret" map of mine in another thread here on the forums. (I'm not back to being active here, I just felt I owe this to the author and to the greater community.)

You guys are jerks. There's just no sense of decency here. If you had wanted to right the wrongs and be fair, you would have taken steps to make sure that people don't feel this kind of abuse. Just so you don't say I didn't warn you, abuse on the Internet is just as much a crime as abuse in real life, and one of you will end up in a lawsuit one of these days because of your ignorance. I'm outta here, this is just not worth my time. There are better communities out there, and better people who tolerate each others' presence and actually work together to achieve things instead of pissing on each other to no end in order to satisfy their own egos and I don't know what else. I am fully disgusted with your attitudes. Crimson, I'm sorry but I don't feel that your assessment is entirely just. I know you have the best of intentions, and you're one person I actually honestly respect in this community, but I must say that I sincerely feel that CaptainCrazy is just as much a victim as all those who have left before him and that there is something seriously wrong with your attitude here guys. For all my efforts I have spent here I don't see much appreciation. I think most of you are incredibly selfish and should be ashamed of yourselves. (Apologies to the few decent people who still stick around and tolerate all the bullshit they have to deal with every day from jerks around here. Don't put up with it guys, just leave. Form your own community site with actually decent rules that make sure no-one gets hurt. It's not that hard. Don't let a bunch of hypocrites dictate what is right and what is wrong for your work. Most of them are not as experienced as they make themselves out to be -- especially if their ego is more important than their work.) I'm done. Gone. Out.

Eez, I'd like you to consider that Captain tolerated two waves of criticism from two individuals, and then a selfish post about his project being challenged/taken-over by a staff member before reacting the way he did with an presumably exaggerated reaction. I don't feel that the reaction was an overreaction at all. It was quite natural and reasonable considering the circumstances. I also think that staff are not meant to take sides. Isn't that the rule of thumb here? :/ Perhaps these things should better be discussed in a formal setting with all staff present.

Okay, I'll spread the word, then.

It's a secret.

Huh? o.O

Simply because no-one from LucasArts could be bothered going around shutting down mods that were not endangering their interests, to put it in layman's terms. Any creative work based on copyrighted material or intellectual property is an artwork whose fate is controlled by the copyright holder, and whose nature is legally questionable. That would be because some people here are quite immature in their approach to dealing with conflicting views to their own. >.<'

I could ask the same on your end, minilogoguy. How are some people so insensitive to others' feelings that they can't see past their own objectives? The thing is we can call each other names, but this is not a mature way to relate to each other, and it won't solve anything. I'm getting the feeling that some people in this community just don't want to see or even consider that their actions may be crude and inconsiderate towards others, and if we don't receive some relevant feedback on the staff's point of view on this, I may be forced to make up my own opinion about the real nature of this community. I have to say that I've seen much better forums where members have acted much more responsible for their actions. If you can't learn to respect each others' point of view and feelings about certain matters, then I really feel sad for the state of things here, and I certainly feel that my efforts are in vain. Thanks AshuraDX. I appreciate your detailed explanation of the events that took place from your point of view, and for your willingness to make up for any mistakes made. I have been in contact with Captain and I can say with certainty that the criticism received was indeed too harsh, and however helpful your intentions may have been, they did not produce the desired effect on the person you were trying to help. Now, Captain is not unreasonable in his point of view, either, and what he felt was unsupportive criticism that tried to push certain practical ideas onto him that were not in line with his vision for this project. Instead of trying to understand the situation and listening to Captain's wishes, @@minilogoguy18 and you persisted in your efforts to prove a point based on your experience which effectively offended Captain and made him feel that his creative vision and project was being jeopardised. This is why I feel we need to have rules of conduct in place that define what constitutes as constructive criticism, and what is considered an abusive form of criticism that many members feel does not make them feel welcome in this community. This is not a matter of how sensitive someone is. We all have our breaking points. We all hold certain things dear. It is about understanding each other, and putting effort into respecting each other's views and visions, and placing them in importance above our own desire to prove a certain idea or meet a certain agenda. If a member decides to showcase their creative work, let their vision be respected. Don't go barging in trying to prove your own view if you feel your view is not welcome. And if you happen to offend a member with your views, responsibly apologise, and cease to interfere with their project. In real life we don't go forcing our ideas onto our friends despite their dislike of our thoughts and approach. Why do we need to do this online? Just because we don't see the other person face to face doesn't mean we need to disrespect their views, thoughts, or feelings about a subject. Let's be mature and civilised, shall we? EDIT: And I don't like to do this, but since you've put Captain in the spotlight, let me illustrate the wrong in your approach, too -- in the post that started this argument after your initial criticism: "Well I dont mind wether he does or not" -- How can you not mind what the OP thinks of your criticism or how they feel about it? This shows complete ignorance and lack of care towards the views of the member you are trying to help, and illustrates a selfish attitude in someone else's creative project thread. Note that you've added "as a personal challenge with a simple goal" after this incident to your original post, as well as "to create a good looking and good performing game mesh". The original post read as quoted above. I'll get you to have a close look at the highlighted "I've" and "my". Does it at any point read to you that your proposal was to assist Captain in understanding his project? It certainly reads to me like you have taken matters into your own hands and decided to do a better job than Captain at his own project. And that's how it read to Captain, too. Which is why he responded with the retort you have quoted above. This is also why I have responded with my humorous retort in the same thread to illustrate the irony in your approach, but you don't seem to have taken a hint from that. As you can see, the description in your point of view of the transpired events is not entirely truthful, and I would like you to consider the situation in its entirety with a responsible, mature, and honest attitude. I would also ask the rest of the staff to review this incident, and to feel free to contact me or @@CaptainCrazy to discuss this event in detail. I hope that serious thought will be given to the real life example presented here, and that we can reach an understanding and establish a fair course of action for the future. In the unlikely event that I receive no correspondence and my plea is ignored, I will be resigning from this community as I won't see it fit for a productive creative environment. So for the sake of all the rest of the members here, @@Circa, @@eezstreet, and the rest of the staff, let's consult and please consider taking certain action regarding these events in preventive measures so that such sour incidents do not occur again, and that this community is established as a peaceful and creative place/haven for people to pursue their passions without attacks or prejudice.

Well said, @@CrimsonStrife. I intended to pay a model-maker to make and rig a model for in-game use, but I wasn't aware of the full legal implications of such an offer. Any copyrighted material is the property of the copyright holder, and any creative based on that copyrighted material is questionable in nature, and its fate is fully controllable by the copyright owner. By paying for the making of such art you are endangering the intercepting engagement of the copyright holder. If the copyright holder requests that content be pulled down, or removed from circulation, you must abide by their request immediately. However, it is perfectly alright to sell your own creative work that you have created from completely original material, and it seems certain mods may be considered to have an option for sale.

I know you're trying to soften the situation MagSul, but the fact remains that @@CaptainCrazy did not feel @@AshuraDX's "assistance" was helpful one bit, and then on top of that, instead of pulling back, AshuraDX engaged in a direct confrontation with Captain. At what point in all this did the criticism and "help" Captain received actually help with his progress on the model? In the end it only discouraged him from continuing his work. That's not the way to help someone. If you're going to assist, be considerate towards the person you're assisting, and their wishes.

This is exactly what I'm talking about! http://jkhub.org/topic/4356-ahsoka-tano-lightsaber/page-2 Why does a staff member feel to need to creatively challenge a member in order to prove a point without thinking how that will affect that member? After the member has been severely criticised. That's egotistic behaviour. It doesn't help anyone but serves to boost the staff member's ego. This is not responsible action, and certainly not considerate. And then on top of this the staff member engages in a direct conflict with the member, making matters only worse! This is why we need rules for member and staff alike.

Thanks MagSul. I think the "cold-shouldered"-ness comes partly from this lack of a general supportive approach, where the person helping is not really thinking about the situation of the individual they're helping. Often opinions are expressed just for the sake of showing off one's ego. This kind of behaviour leaves newcomers and even members who have spent a longer time here often feeling put down or otherwise empty. As you and @@Mandalorian have pointed out, there are many members here who have had years of experience in their skills. They should be respected for their knowledge, skills, and wisdom, but there is no need for people to show off their big ego. Being humble goes a long way to earning respect. If everyone had a supportive intention in mind, there would much less alienation and cold-shoulderedness in this community. That's why I'm proposing that the rules/guidelines advise on a supportive approach that binds people in the community rather than an individualistic approach that promotes egotism.

Thanks Eez. I'm not suggesting this is common here -- thankfully it's far from it! In fact, I'm quite proud of the way the staff has managed recent events. My original direction with this topic has actually been swayed off a little towards particular other events I was little aware of that Darth pointed out. Going back to the start, I only recommend that there be guidelines for all members on certain behaviours that are alienating to other members, such as too harsh criticism that serves not to aid the member in their creative development, but to discourage them from further attempt at their work. The key thing here is not the fact that the work is being criticised, but the intention that goes on behind the criticism. For criticism to be constructive, one's primary motive needs to be to help the artist progress and complete their work, and not to throw them off their game in order to express one's own selfish opinions. Too much criticism that is geared against an individual's work, passion, and person in essence is not much different to a direct assault on that individual. The effect is the same: the person is frightened off and they will never attempt to create another artwork with the same tools/approach or in the same community again -- or perhaps ever. There needs to be a general approach that promotes a friendly and productive creative community atmosphere, and "Don't be a dick" does nothing to promote that.

OH MY GOD!! You guys fixed the rain in MP!! I LOVE YOU!!! ♥♥♥ I've been waiting forever for this, and all the Mac retail versions of the game seemed to get it wrong. They still do, to this day. Now the ambience on this map (my favourite) is just right. I want to donate. How can I? Does the team have a PayPal account?

Darth, I don't want to criticise you, but even in your response here I can feel a lack of respect towards another individual. I'm not sure who Deviance is, I've never met him/her, but I'm sure he/she wasn't the only one responsible for the hostilities, and that everyone involved in the debate took a more or less equal part. We need to be mindful of our approach, members and staff alike, but especially staff members need to be careful not to engage in one-on-one debates with members, and instead have a clear set of rules and procedures to follow that respect the (trouble-causing) member and help to steer her/him in the right direction in order to avoid the need to restrain/punish. I understand your views, Eez and Darth, and I agree that people should stay natural and not pretend they like something they do not, but I do think we need to find a way to avoid getting entangled in unnecessary arguments and making other/new members feel unwelcome even for their mistakes or misunderstanding.

I find it helps to spell these things out clearly. It may be common sense, but you'd be surprised how easily people forget. "Don't be a jerk" is a little too brief. Most forums, and in fact, even overly formal and cold legal agreements have a written guideline that says "All parties in their dealings with each other will act reasonably and in good faith", which basically means have a positive and supportive attitude through the whole ordeal. It is better to ignore someone's repeated requests -- or, better yet, try to calmly explain to them the environment/circumstances they're in -- than to criticise/scold them and take a more hostile approach. That's my personal view, at least. I think we generally need to think open and positive when communicating with one another, and try to support each other's efforts -- and if someone is somehow abusive in their behaviour, we can point them to the rules and say: this is what you need to follow if you wish to continue your stay. I think that's fair on everyone.

You need to place _humanoid next to the model's folder in the folder structure, then open the GLM in ModView.

Since I've joined, I've been talking to a lot of members here, and I've found many of them have experienced hostilities from too much egotism on behalf of other members on the forums. In order to help improve relations, may I suggest adding something like the following to the forum rules:

Copyright doesn't just disappear overnight. In most of the cases it gets transferred onto another individual/company. And from the looks of it, neither do large companies/identities. For copyright to expire, it either needs to be abandoned for a long time (over 20 years), or the original copyright holder needs to explicitly give up their rights, and that means legally stating that they no longer wish to have legal ownership of the intellectual property or artwork. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

I see. Couldn't you edit the _humanoid GLA and just remove the animation control points from it? Depending on your needs, you could also just make the playermodel invisible by editing the model's shader(s). Then you wouldn't need to worry about its animations.

I'm trying to understand this... So, you don't need any of the game's animations for your mod/work?

I think you're right, @. If your mod doesn't contain any content or subject copyrighted to LucasArts/Lucasfilm/Disney, I think the EULA allows you to sell your game mod/map/model on an individual basis. You wouldn't be violating the original agreement. Because you own copyright on your work, they are legally not allowed to take that from you, so they can only (sub-)license use of your work, which they have done so using the EULA in clause 7.