Jedi_Mediator

This stuff is always tricky to explain in words, so I'll use pictures instead. Here's the flow as it is right now. Pic 1: Player is on the top tier of the pit, ready to jump onto the pipe and then onto the walkway, headed for the door seen center-screen. Pic 2: Player has reached the walkway. The door opens when the player comes near. Pic 3: Player has walked through the door and finds themselves in the reactor maintenance hallway. I figured these hallways would function as the Imperials' access to the "maintenance shafts" (AKA the exit maze) for workers coming from different parts of the base. So the player would first enter the maintenance hallway, progress through a small section of maze, reach another maintenance hallway, do some more of the maze, etc. until reaching a final hallway where they will be able to break a vent and enter cairn_reactor. Does this make sense? We could limit the maze to 3 or 4 different sections to keep it from becoming tiresome. Shots are below.

The hallway in the shot is currently connected directly to the pit through a door. It's somewhat in shadow, but if you look closely in the shot, you can see a ramp leading to the left off of the main grated walkway. This ramp is where the player enters from after reaching the catwalk at the top of the pit. Does that make sense? We can change it if you want. And I think it would be easier to modify the pit in cairn_stockpile to match the one in cairn_dock2, rather than the other way around. Do you want them to look basically the same? (Also, do you mean cairn_dock1? Cairn_dock2 does not appear to be included in the original game.)

Okay, I've imported the prefab from cairn_bay2 and will start arranging it into a maze. From the shot I posted above, do you think we should include my maintenance hallway concept in the end of the level? I was thinking of including several similar hallways, to break up the monotony of the prefab maze, and maybe put the level transition in one final hallway at the end.

Preliminary shot of the reactor hallways. Nothing is complete yet, this is just to show the general concept and mood. Suggestions welcome.

Okay, I'll leave the extendable walkway as it is. I've started laying down the brushwork for the reactor maintenance halls. Previously you mentioned something about an exit maze--do you think that's what we should use these halls for?

Stand on the nearest catwalk between the T-junctions and use force pull on the glowing red switch next to the door. It will cause a long metal plank to extend to the catwalk you're standing on. It seems that's how the developers intended the players to reach the crane controls. Jumping is not necessary. I only figured this out because I saw lots of entities and connections around that door in Radiant, and wondered why. I was quite surprised to discover that the switch is actually activated by force pull. This mechanic doesn't make a lot of sense to me, though. I was thinking we could possibly have a moveable catwalk leading to the door, which has been retracted toward the ceiling (since the Imperials don't want the player to access the crane controls). The player could then use force pull on this retracted catwalk, causing it to fall back into place and allowing them to progress. I also had an idea of how to do the level change. In the duel pit room, I could turn the highest beam (the one with all the lights on it) into a makeshift walkway and add a door on each end. One or both of these doors could lead to some kind of reactor maintenance hallway, and somewhere in the hallway we could include a broken grate, which the player could shoot and then enter. They would slide down a chute and find themselves in the reactor's interior--triggering the change to cairn_reactor.

That's actually a really interesting idea. It would allow us to "kill" each section of cable as it is retracted, so that none of it intrudes on the room above. The main issue I foresee is we would need a way to move the fx_runner around the room with scripts, so that it always stays aligned with the magnet. I don't know if JK2 supports that kind of manipulation of fx_runners. But we should definitely keep the idea in mind. I will make that level transition the next thing I work on. As for the catwalk door--could you clarify which door you mean? Is it the door leading to the duel pit elevator? I'm still unclear how the player is supposed to get up to that catwalk. It seems the developers did not include any ways to access it, so we'll have to come up with something on our own.

Okay, here are the changes I've made in recent days: Added full sound to the level, including room-specific ambient sounds and object sounds (beeping consoles, humming pipes, etc.) All doors now have full sound too (except those that have areaportal issues--for some reason the areaportal bug prevents them from making sound).A few texturing tweaksAdded full functionality to the elevatorsAdded detailing to the "drab room" that is accessed by the long corridor, after the player drops through the damaged floor sectionMade a prototype crane system, in case you want to begin scripting. I placed the crane in the exact middle of the stockpile room for now. There are a few differences right now from what you suggested initially. First, I made the magnet and the magnet housing two separate func_statics, since they will both need to move together during left/right/forward/back movement but the magnet will need to move independently of the housing when raising/lowering. Second, I haven't added any ref_tags yet, because I'm not sure how you want to use them. If we want a ref_tag for every possible position the crane could be in, we might exceed the entity limit very quickly. Because of this, I suggest using explicit coordinates in the move() commands instead (let me know if you need help with this--it does require some work in GTKRadiant to figure out the coordinates). Also, I'm already seeing an issue with the crane system as it is now. The "support cylinder" connecting the magnet to the housing needs to be very long in order to lower the magnet far enough to pick up a crate. The result of this is that, when the crane is fully retracted, the support cylinder sticks up through the room above! We'll need to find some sort of workaround for this. I'll send you the .map, the .bsp, and the scripts (which you'll obviously need for the elevators to function) so you can test and begin scripting whenever you want. The four func_statics are listed below, with their script_targetnames and starting coordinates. Magnet housing: magnet_housing (0 -3648 904)Magnet: magnet (0 -3648 828)Top rail: rail_top (0 -3648 984)Bottom rail: rail_bot (0 -3648 968)

-I don't think it's absolutely necessary to make all crates the same size, but I think it would make scripting their movements easier. After all, every moveable crate will have to be its own func_static. -I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you asking whether they should all stack on top of each other when dropped on the cargo lift? My answer would be yes, that would be easiest. I also have a question for you regarding Jedi Outcast scripting. In the past, I have only done scripting in Jedi Academy. I assumed that it would all work the same in JK2, since both games use ICARUS scripts. But I'm finding it difficult to debug the scripts I'm writing (right now I'm working on fixing the elevators). In JK3, I could enter the in-game command "developer 1", and the game would give a detailed readout of each and every script command that was executed (when a trigger is activated, when an entity moves, etc.). In JK2, the command gives me no such readouts, even though the scripts are clearly doing *something*. Are there any console commands in JK2 that work the same as "developer 1" does in JK3? I work best when I can see exactly what my scripts are doing...

Were you planning on doing the scripting for the crane, then, @@eezstreet? If so, feel free--it's one less task for me to tackle. What kind of crane do you think would work best for a room like this? Where should it be placed, and how should it function? I've brushed out an idea for one type of crane, but I'm having trouble seeing how it's going to fit, with the walkway supports getting in the way.

Could you elaborate on this? I have a few ideas on how I might make a moving crate using triggers and scripts (have separate buttons for moving it left, right, forward, backward, etc.), but I would have no clue how to make the player movement controls (WASD or whatever the player is using) directly operate a crane. If this is what we want I will need some help, or we will need to ask someone else. As for the crane puzzle unlocking the doors on the opposite side of the lift...did you know that the original devs put maglocks on those doors? That means that right now, the player can unlock the doors by slicing the locks with the lightsaber, if they come at them from the inside. They would see the maglocks if they accessed the doors using the lift (the same one that takes them up to the two-level control room). Anyway, I've fixed all the issues you mentioned in your post--except for the ones I said I was waiting on, and the areaportal bug that I can't figure out. Do you think it's time to move on to the next stage of the project? What should we work on next?

Thanks for the detail and variety of your feedback! I've already started working on some of the issues you mentioned. Fixed the missing button textures, the disconnected pipes, and changed the floor texture.I felt the actual workings of the doors were more of a functionality concern than an architecture, so I waited on those until we move on in the project. As for the areaportaling...I have put hours into trying different methods to fix this issue, and I just CAN'T figure out how to solve it. It's pretty frustrating. I've examined and messed with the areaportals and the surrounding architecture in every way I could think of, and I just can't understand why some of them work and others don't. Maybe we can get advice or help from someone else?I think the cylindrical crate was a placeholder from the original developers saying, "There will be crates in this room." I just moved it off to one side, next to some other crates. I also added the crates by the stairs and moved the stairs themselves so that they're flush with the base of the wall.Fixed the nonsolid grate.I added some visual variety to the T-junction rooms, so that each one looks a little different. I also changed the breakable floor section to something that looks more like damaged metal. Let me know if you think I made it too obvious.The room at the end of the hallways you mentioned (the one with the window and the lift leading up to the control room) could be made more interesting by making it the control room for the crane puzzle...more on that below.I will darken the lighting in the control room's lower level and take a look at those wall textures.I will try and darken the lighting in the pit room, too. We can figure out the level transition once we're working on level flow. You're right, we will have to figure out what the crane puzzle is meant to actually accomplish. Maybe when the player first enters the stockpile, they see the Imperials using the crane to move crates in front of a door, to block the intruder's progress? Then the player would need to use the crane to unblock the door. I also had some thoughts about actually doing the crane puzzle. The control room in the upper corner of the stockpile room (the one you mentioned as being the room where the player works on the crane puzzle) has really poor placement for actually doing the puzzle. The player cannot see the crates at all from this room--you might have noticed that. But I also noticed that, from the window in the "drab" room mentioned above, the player can actually see the crates really well. Maybe this could be the room the player uses to actually operate the crane. Then we could make the old crane control room into some kind of security room, where the player performs a security override to unlock the crane controls.

Okay, I made some tweaks to the room mentioned above, and tidied up some of the editing I've done in other areas of the map. From what I can tell, the architecture of the map is more or less complete (with the exception of any rooms that may or may not need to be added). But it's probably best for you to decide that for yourself, @@eezstreet. If you want, I'll PM you the .bsp file so you can explore the level and let me know of any changes that need to be made. If the architecture is finished, then I'd say it's time to move on to the next stage of this project.

No problem, I'll change the lighting back to white. And from what I could find looking around the level, this is the last room I still need to add architecture to (shown below). Maybe it's the AT-ST storage mentioned in the level flow you posted, or perhaps the room leading up to it. But that level flow mentions rooms that don't seem to match any that I see currently present in the level. So once I finish improving this room, I'm not sure how many rooms I may or may not need to make from scratch.

It's been a while since my last update, but since then i've finished adding architecture to 5 of the 6 rooms I had left (again, if my count is correct). I did work on three smaller rooms and both levels of a bigger room. Little room overlooking big stockpile area: Crane control room (?): Some kind of elevator room: Upper level of the big room: Lower level of the big room: Let me know if you want anything changed!

No, none of the doors that lead to nowhere currently open. I'm guessing this means that they are not essential to completing the level, so we could leave them shut unless we decide the player needs extra pickups.

Six rooms, if my count is correct. But there are also a lot of doors that currently lead to nowhere, and I'm not sure if there are supposed to be additional rooms beyond them that were never built.

Spruced up the passageways above the cargo room and also the first big room of the level.

Before/after of the "goodie room": Before/after of the corridor leading to the "goodie rooms":

I did make sure the stair opening is quite a bit wider than the crates. The cargo elevator idea makes sense, but gameplay-wise, it seems like it would make the staircase pointless. That would be a change for eezstreet to decide on.

@@eezstreet, could you try sending me the .zip of the cairn .map files again? The one you sent me before was somehow corrupt. I'd like to see some of the working grate textures that Raven used in the cairn missions.

I've been away from the JK community in general for a long time--my big gaming/modding days were in my teenage years. But recently I've been taking a peek at the community again and thinking about doing a bit more modding--specifically making maps with interesting features and new "gametypes." So I was wondering, what are things like in the JK community nowadays? Do people still play custom maps? Are mods more common on JK2 than JA, or vice versa? Are people still making maps with the goal of getting them on servers, or just as a form of art? I'd like to know what I'm getting into if I'm going to start mapping again. I've looked around on the JA server list and seen a lot of ffa3, ffa5, etc. I've also seen a lot of servers filled with all bots and no humans. I know this is a pretty old game, so it's natural for players to diminish, but it's clear to see that JKHub is still quite active. I'm just wondering if I can still find that level of activity in the game itself--and if I can find a demand for the type of maps I want to make. I know these are pretty broad questions, and possibly difficult for individuals to answer. Any responses are appreciated. Even if custom maps aren't very popular anymore, I'll probably still do a bit of mapping anyway, just as an artistic outlet. But having your maps actually played is a pretty nice bonus, too. (P.S. - I felt this belonged in this forum, but feel free to move to Modding Discussion if needed.)

Do you still need help with this? Can you show us exactly what you've been typing for "ambient" and "_color?" These keys have always worked for me. For "ambient," any values lower than 50 or so will still be extremely dark. And for color, I believe it actually needs to be three values between 0 and 1 (e.g. 0.4 0.5 0.8), separated by spaces. These are the RGB values of the ambient light.

Did work on the "staircase room" adjacent to the big stockpile room. -Added crates for clutter, in lower and upper levels (since this is a stockpile, after all) -Changed ramp to a staircase and added structural supports for realism -Fixed overkill lighting for added contrast -Changed upper floor texture to something solid -Improved some texturing Before/after of lower level: Shots of upper level: Close-up of fleshed-out staircase (let me know if you want it changed):

Okay, so should we change the grated floor to a more solid design--one of the flat metal textures, like the rest of the floors in the map? And change the staircase/ramp into something that looks more structurally sound?