[Concept] Damage types

[Silverfang]

Weapons of the Universe

We have more than just blasters you know...

 

Blasters are great, their destructive capabilities are certainly impressionable and the sounds they make are certainly recognizable.

 

By default, they are:

• Effective against armor
• Effective against organic targets
• Weak against shields
• Average against electrical systems such as droids and vehicles

Some blasters use ion-based rounds:

• Effective against armor
• Weak against organic targets
• Effective against shielding
• Very effective against electrical systems

 

Slugthrowers are a physical projectile based weapon, often using volatile chemicals to propel them at lethal speeds. They are at worst a primitive technology and at best outdated, however they still see some use especially in the outer rim and for specific situations by bounty hunters.

 

By default, they are:

• Ineffective against armor
• Effective against organic targets
• Completely ignore most shielding
• Virtually useless against electrical systems

They can also:

• Cause targets to bleed over time

Accelerated Charged Particle weapons, or ACP for short are often mistaken at first for slugthrowers, however they are more akin to blasters.

 

By default they are:

• Ineffective against armor
• Effective against organic targets
• Effective against shielding
• Ineffective against electrical systems

Pulse weapons utilize fusion plasma to deliver high velocity "balls of death".

 

By default they:

• Completely ignore armor, and are
• Somewhat effective against organic targets
• Ineffective against shielding
• Somewhat effective against electrical systems

Ion based weapons are like concentrated EMP blasts, providing an extremely effective way to deal with droids.

 

By default they:

• Completely ignore most armor, and are
• Virtually useless against organic targets
• Extremely effective against shields
• Extremely effective against electrical systems

Electrical based weapons are literal lightning casters, they are more lethal to organic targets than ion weapons, but not quite as effective against droids

 

By default they are:

• Somewhat effective against armor
• Somewhat effective against organic targets
• Effective against shields
• Effective against electrical systems

Sonic based weapons are an expensive technology that it is hard-hitting enough to knock down most average sized targets.

 

By default they are:

• Somewhat effective against armor
• Somewhat effective against organic targets
• Somewhat effective against shields
• Ineffective against electrical targets

They can also:

• Knock down targets

 

Cold based weapons provide a whole new weather element in an otherwise non-hostile environment, non-insulated targets will suffer frostbite and anyone caught with a direct hit will find it hard to move

 

By default they are:

• Ineffective against armor
• Somewhat effective against organic targets
• Effective against shields
• Ineffective against electrical systems

They also:

• Cause targets to be slowed
• In extreme cases, cause the target to be frozen in ice

Fire based weapons cause burning damage over time, wide-spread panic and make starting campfires fun

 

By default they are:

• Ineffective against armor
• Very effective against organic targets
• Negated by shields
• Ineffective against electrical systems

They can also:

• Cause targets to be set on fire and take damage over time
  • This can include shielded targets
  • Is less likely to set fire to armored targets

There are also less common damage types like Carbonite (similar to cold damage), Slash (similar to slug damage), and Impact (fists, blunt weapons, etc).

 

 

 

To protect against these damage you have 2 main ways, armor and shielding

 

Armor:

• Will reduce all damage to the limb it is attached to, even against weapons that deal more damage to armor (with the exception of Pulse and Ion damage)
• Most armor will reduce movement speed, but substantially increase effective health
• Some armor will also provide a small increase to maximum health when equipped

Shielding:

• Will completely negate damage as long as it holds (with the exception of Slug, Slash, and Impact damage)
• Recharges, with different rates depending on the shield item
• Does not benefit from armor damage reduction

 

 

Feedback welcome

[Futuza]

We've also talked about special kind of shielding and armor that is somewhat effective in reducing lightsaber inflicted damage, such as cortosis weave armor.  However, this will likely be a later addition and still needs to be fleshed out.  By implementing this, it helps provide a purpose and use for players to opt to use vibroblades instead of traditional lightsabers in some situations.  Additionally, we wanted to stop fire damage with water (hopping into water when you're on fire will put it out) and with crouch-rolls (you know...stop drop and roll).

[Silverfang]

Water does in fact already puts out fire (demonstrated in the fire damage and efx developer diary video), however rolling does not yet.

[eezstreet]

Rolling has a 50% chance of removing fire effects, as demonstrated by this snippet:

else
        { //otherwise send us into the roll
            pm->ps->legsTimer = 0;
            pm->ps->legsAnim = 0;
            PM_SetAnim(SETANIM_BOTH,rolled,SETANIM_FLAG_OVERRIDE|SETANIM_FLAG_HOLD);
            PM_AddEventWithParm( EV_ROLL, 0 );
            pm->maxs[2] = pm->ps->crouchheight;//CROUCH_MAXS_2;
            pm->ps->viewheight = DEFAULT_VIEWHEIGHT;
            pm->ps->pm_flags &= ~PMF_DUCKED;
            pm->ps->pm_flags |= PMF_ROLLING;
            // Remove fire damage...some of the time. Jumping into water is a better bet --eez
#ifdef _GAME
            if(Q_irand(1,2) == 1)
            {
                JKG_RemoveDamageType((gentity_t *)pm_entSelf, DT_FIRE);
            }
#endif

Also, you have to be almost completely submerged in water (just enough that you are swimming) in order for fire to be removed from being in water. While you are swimming, you are also completely immune to fire.

 

Note that @@Silverfang says "by default." Some weapons can be better than average at these. For instance, sniper rifles have armor piercing capability which allows them to ignore some (or all) of an armor piece's DR. It can also be based on the ammo. Slugthrowers can have armor piercing rounds to help mitigate their weakness towards armor, while stinger ion rounds help ion weapons be better at dealing with things other than droids and shields.

 

Here are all of the damage types:

// Bit of damage types stuff here...
typedef enum damageType_e
{
    DT_DISINTEGRATE,
    DT_ELECTRIC,
    DT_EXPLOSION,
    DT_FIRE,
    DT_FREEZE,
    DT_IMPLOSION,
    DT_STUN,
    DT_CARBONITE,

    DT_BLASTER,
    DT_SLUG,
    DT_ACP,
    DT_PULSE,
    DT_ION,
    DT_SONIC,
    DT_BLEED,
    DT_COLD,
    
    NUM_DAMAGE_TYPES
} damageType_t;

Note that Implosion and Stun aren't used. Cold and Freeze are different because cold slows the target while Freeze locks them in place. Fire removes all Cold and Freeze effects. Disintegrate just does the disintegrate effect when a player is killed by it, there is no other difference.

[eezstreet]

So now that I've finished all of the other hugemajor parts of 1.3.0, I can start working on this.

The question is, how should, for instance, Cold v Armor be determined? Should it be determined via a damagetypes.json where the values can be customized? And maybe have the damage block in the .wpn file override some things? Or?

[Silverfang]

Weapons may specifically have properties to increase their effectiveness against certain things that they are normally weak to.

 

I think default damage multipliers gathered in one file (I assume that's what you mean by damagetypes.json)  with optional overrides in .wpn files is the way to go.

 

Question: Will future items (as in variants/qualities/etc. of items) be individual .wpn files for each one or will the extra properties they gain be determined in the itm files?

[eezstreet]

Weapons may specifically have properties to increase their effectiveness against certain things that they are normally weak to.

 

I think default damage multipliers gathered in one file (I assume that's what you mean by damagetypes.json)  with optional overrides in .wpn files is the way to go.

 

Question: Will future items (as in variants/qualities/etc. of items) be individual .wpn files for each one or will the extra properties they gain be determined in the itm files?

I'm not sure yet.

 

I think weapons for right now should have the same modifiers, and we can think about adding it to weapons when the need to balance arises.

[eezstreet]

Question: What is a disruptor? Is it Pulse? Or Blaster type?

[Darth Sion]

Question: What is a disruptor? Is it Pulse? Or Blaster type?

A disruptor is a Blaster type. Even if it has a charge mechanism, it's still considered a Blaster type.

[eezstreet]

It's been implemented.

In hindsight, I suspect what semblance of balance there was before is now very much out the window, seeing as how the ACP Array Gun does 20% more damage across the board, slugthrower ignores shields, and the pulse shotgun goes right through armor. Blasters are going to have to be cheaper probably to compensate.

[Silverfang]

Yeah, generally speaking this probably adds (EVEN MORE) damage overall than it takes away. Once armor actually has damage reduction it should be okay though.

 

Then we can start looking at status effects to buff up damage even more!

I should note though that Particle Shields (also called Shift Shields) actually do work against slugthrowers.

[Futuza]

So in regards to shields being changed players no longer start out with a bonus 25 health (from the old shield) and have EVEN LESS health by default than before as a result.  Would a change like 125-150 hp as the default be an okay way to help balance this?  (Plus I'm thinking eventually in LMO phases, characters will have less or more hp than 100, depending on their level.  So its supposed to vary a little eventually, anyway).

[eezstreet]

So in regards to shields being changed players no longer start out with a bonus 25 health (from the old shield) and have EVEN LESS health by default than before as a result.  Would a change like 125-150 hp as the default be an okay way to help balance this?  (Plus I'm thinking eventually in LMO phases, characters will have less or more hp than 100, depending on their level.  So its supposed to vary a little eventually, anyway).

You start with 100 health and no shields, correct. I actually think this is fine, it makes the gameplay a little faster to start. It takes now two less shots to kill someone with the starter pistol (5->3) because of changes to the damage types involved.

[hleV]

So wait, do slugthrowers really completely ignore shielding, or are completed ignored by shielding?

[eezstreet]

They go straight through shields.

[Futuza]

I have implemented Poison damage type in develop and put in a new test weapon for it called grenade_poison.  Poison currently does 10% of your current health and then tapers off to 1 dmg over time.  (If 10% is less than 1dmg, just does 1 dmg).  You also have a 50% chance to resist poison damage each cycle it occurs.  Poison does not affect droids and does 1.1x damage against organics.  Might need to reduce this a bit with some balance testing, it's a little weird since it does more damage to full hp players and less to low hp players.  I have also adjusted bleed damage so that you only have a 4/10 chance of bleeding each cycle and it does overall less damage before (cuz lol 38 dmg from one shot was way too much).  Now it does 1 - 2 dmg per cycle (I think cycles are about 0.5 seconds) and lasts for about 3.5 seconds.

[Silverfang]

We shouldn't include too many "chances" to take damage, it should just be a reduced amount of damage or bleed until you take X damage with a certain chance to not take damage for that tick.

[Onysfx]

We shouldn't include too many "chances" to take damage, it should just be a reduced amount of damage or bleed until you take X damage with a certain chance to not take damage for that tick.

Also you shouldn't bleed once you reach super low hp. This will make it so the enemy with have to finish you off with one last shot. Not as much fun when you die of bleeding and your opponent doesn't get to finish you off himself (or herself or theyself, to include the non binary genders)

 

tldr: You should never die from bleeding, once you reach 1 hp, you no longer bleed.

[Silverfang]

Current thoughts on damage:

4% of current health (rounded down, minimum 1) per second for 5 seconds

if below 20% of total health, deal 1 damage per 2 seconds instead.

if at 1 HP, stop bleeding.

 

Originally I wanted you to be able to bleed to death, now I'm thinking there will be a separate type of bleed damage that can cause death from bleeding, this will require separate balancing though (for example, it will not be based off of current health)

[Futuza]

Current thoughts on damage:

 

4% of current health (rounded down, minimum 1) per second for 5 seconds

if below 20% of total health, deal 1 damage per 2 seconds instead.

if at 1 HP, stop bleeding.

 

Originally I wanted you to be able to bleed to death, now I'm thinking there will be a separate type of bleed damage that can cause death from bleeding, this will require separate balancing though (for example, it will not be based off of current health)

I made most of the changes, except for the below 20% health part earlier today, but I can add that in. EDIT: It is in.

 

I'm not sure I agree though with the not being able to bleed to death.  Having two different types of bleed damage seems a bit weird and unnecessary to me.

[Onysfx]

I've always found bleeding to death in games very annoying. It's like if your at low hp, what's the point in running now? I'm just going to die anyway. I would definitely be up for a limping animation when at low hp. I believe RPG-X for elite force does something like this.

[Futuza]

I've always found bleeding to death in games very annoying. It's like if your at low hp, what's the point in running now?

This is what I would hope would make things like bacta useful.

[Futuza]

As a note regarding up coming changes in v1.3.23, ACP damage has been modified from the original post's description.  ACP now functions as something that partially hits shields and partially penetrates.  The default is for 50% of the damage to bypass the shield and the other 50% to impact on the shield.  The actual ratio can be determine in the weapon file by specifying a value for "ACPRatio", which determines which portion of the ACP damage impacts on the shield/vs what bypasses it. eg: 0.4 == 40% direct dmg, 60% shield damage.  As an example, using 0.4 ACPRatio, a weapon that does 30 ACP damage, would result in 12 damage being guaranteed to bypass the shield, and 18 damage impacting on the shield.  If the player were also armored, the direct bypass damage would also be reduced like normal.  ACP damage also applies a bleed debuff like slugthrowers do.