A question about uploaded mods/ files

[the_raven]

Hm, the title's a bit vague... anyway.

 

I was wondering, the site has a dedicated files section where mods are uploaded and downloaded, but quite a few mods are only uploaded to the forum, so site visitors and members have to look through the forums if they want to get a particular mod that they hope/ know exists. Should we just upload files to the mods section like it was originally intended? Otherwise, do we even need the section?

Now I know you're gonna say that it's not hard to do a forum search, and that a lot of the forum uploads are of legally questionably status (being ports and all), but a lot of them aren't, and yet, they're only uploaded to the forum, not to the files section. There should be a bit of order, is all I'm saying.

[Lyo]

I don't understand too ^^ I posted a Mod, and after a few days, it has still not been treated by moderation team...

 

I hope an answer here ^^

[Noodle]

It takes time for the relatively small staff to check all the submissions and upload them. Give it time and it'll be on the file section, I'm sure

[Circa]

You're posting this as if we control where people post their mods. If they don't want to submit their mod to our files section, that's their choice. Like you mention, most files posted in the forum contain ported or stolen content, and wouldn't be approved to be hosted on our server. We allow it to be posted in the forum because we don't really have a legal obligation to those links.

 

As for approving files, don't expect us to drop everything and approve a file as soon as it's submitted. We are volunteers, we'll get to it. It's more involved than just clicking "approve" and moving on. We have to check various aspects about a submission. To the user's mod in question above, there's a lot of external content made by other people that has to be check out, regarding permissions and such. It's pending. Just be patient.

[Lyo]

Hi Circa

 

I credited all external content made by other people in the credits esction, like HD fonts, small icons used, etc.

 

Some parts of this content was used in others Jedi Academy Mods, like Jedi Knight Enhanced, but this time for Jedi Outcast, so I thought that was a content we could use, cause it's hard to ask permission to authors who aren't active yet...

 

If external content can't really be used, I can remove it and replace it by a content I can try to make myself... But for pictures, this is not my strong point... I pref "Scripting" than make pictures... ^^

 

I take this opportunity to ask if it is impossible to post a lot of Jedi Academy content that I have converted on Jedi Outcast in a big pack like KotF for my own use, which could be used by other people. (Models, Maps, Weapons, Effects...)

[Circa]

Hi Circa

 

I credited all external content made by other people in the credits esction, like HD fonts, small icons used, etc.

 

Some parts of this content was used in others Jedi Academy Mods, like Jedi Knight Enhanced, but this time for Jedi Outcast, so I thought that was a content we could use, cause it's hard to ask permission to authors who aren't active yet...

 

If external content can't really be used, I can remove it and replace it by a content I can try to make myself... But for pictures, this is not my strong point... I pref "Scripting" than make pictures... ^^

 

I take this opportunity to ask if it is impossible to post a lot of Jedi Academy content that I have converted on Jedi Outcast in a big pack like KotF for my own use, which could be used by other people. (Models, Maps, Weapons, Effects...)

Using external content is fine, but you have to take their license seriously. All files on our site show either "Can be used without permission as long as credit to the author is given" or "Cannot be used without permission." Part of our job is to verify that you have permission to use that content, otherwise the author could come along and demand their content be removed from your mod, because it's technically stealing at that point. And obviously we make mistakes and miss things sometimes, especially when people nag at us to speed up the approval process. (not saying you are nagging specifically, but it's a very common thing).

 

Also, combining a ton of mods into one big mod is looked down upon to other modders, because once you do that, you suddenly take responsibility for mods you did not create, in the eyes of the player. Not a big deal in some cases, but it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of modders because at that point you can somewhat take ownership of mods you didn't create. I understand it's more convenient to combine mods to make it easier for players to install, but at the same time, downloading a few zip files isn't the worst thing. Plus people have more freedom to pick and choose what they want if it's not combined.

[Lyo]

 

Using external content is fine, but you have to take their license seriously. All files on our site show either "Can be used without permission as long as credit to the author is given" or "Cannot be used without permission." Part of our job is to verify that you have permission to use that content, otherwise the author could come along and demand their content be removed from your mod, because it's technically stealing at that point. And obviously we make mistakes and miss things sometimes, especially when people nag at us to speed up the approval process. (not saying you are nagging specifically, but it's a very common thing).

 

Also, combining a ton of mods into one big mod is looked down upon to other modders, because once you do that, you suddenly take responsibility for mods you did not create, in the eyes of the player. Not a big deal in some cases, but it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of modders because at that point you can somewhat take ownership of mods you didn't create. I understand it's more convenient to combine mods to make it easier for players to install, but at the same time, downloading a few zip files isn't the worst thing. Plus people have more freedom to pick and choose what they want if it's not combined.

 

Thanks for your answer.

 

So, take your time for verify the Mods, no problems. I just did not understand why there was no more Mods uploaded since somes days ^^ I just hope it will be released cause there is not many Mods for Jedi Outcast... :/ I prefer this gameplay to Jedi Academy, and I would like to see more Mods for Jedi Outcast, and there are many content from Jedi Academy that can works easily with a fast conversion, like models and maps. My Menu Mods, was the first part of the redone of Jedi Outcast.

 

I hope one day upload all the maps and models from movies converted from Jedi Academy, with some improvements in shaders and textures, with all credits to originals authors if its needed without me if its necessary for better visibility from originals authors ^^

 

KotF is perceived as a steal of works from originals authors of many contents ?

 

In a big pack, I can correct shaders wich make the game crash when we are in custom resolution, with one by one, some mods will make the game crash...

 

(I hope my english can be understood )

[Noodle]

KotF is perceived as a steal of works from originals authors of many contents ?

 

Yes, that was a huge controversy back in the day about that.

 

I personally don't care about permissions and such, I feel like it's one of the things that normally stop modders when it shouldn't.

 

Like, in the most extreme case, if you feel like you own a model just because you rigged it (which is what a port is), then I should be allowed to 'port' your work without asking permission. 

 

But aside from that, I don't get why someone would feel like if he owns stuff like scripts, poses, recolors, photosourced textures and other stuff which everybody could be able to replicate 1:1 if they know what they're doing. 

 

I'm aware it'd open a big debate and there're a lot of valid opinions, so I just do my part and give free permission for everybody to use my stuff as they see fit. 

[the_raven]

You're posting this as if we control where people post their mods. If they don't want to submit their mod to our files section, that's their choice. Like you mention, most files posted in the forum contain ported or stolen content, and wouldn't be approved to be hosted on our server. We allow it to be posted in the forum because we don't really have a legal obligation to those links.

No, no, I was just asking about it because I found it strange. I realize the staff isn't very numerous and that there' other things it has/ needs to do, both on the site and elsewhere.

Speaking of which, how about adding a staff category specifically for file approvals? That'd get the files approved/ rejected faster, and would allow you to focus on more technical issues.

 

You're posting this as if we control where people post their mods

Also, wasn't something about this written somewhere in the website rules? That is, that files go to the files section?

[Circa]

Yes, that was a huge controversy back in the day about that.

 

I personally don't care about permissions and such, I feel like it's one of the things that normally stop modders when it shouldn't.

 

Like, in the most extreme case, if you feel like you own a model just because you rigged it (which is what a port is), then I should be allowed to 'port' your work without asking permission. 

 

But aside from that, I don't get why someone would feel like if he owns stuff like scripts, poses, recolors, photosourced textures and other stuff which everybody could be able to replicate 1:1 if they know what they're doing. 

 

I'm aware it'd open a big debate and there're a lot of valid opinions, so I just do my part and give free permission for everybody to use my stuff as they see fit. 

I disagree. People spent a lot of time on a lot of different types of mods. They have a right to feel ownership towards it; they made it. Just because someone can "replicate" something doesn't mean it's up for grabs without giving credit. You didn't make it. Plus, nothing is ever 1:1. Especially in the case of modeling, skinning, and mapping. And keep in mind, many people would like to know what their mods are being used for. It's not always about "this is mine, don't use it" - but more likely "this is mine, let me know when you use it, but most likely you'll be able to". They are free mods, most people are easy going on how they are used, but that doesn't mean people can just steal and claim content as their own. That's exactly what KOTF originally did and why it was a huge deal. Modders still try to do this today, which is why we have to have rules about it.

 

Relative meme: 

 

 

 

 

No, no, I was just asking about it because I found it strange. I realize the staff isn't very numerous and that there' other things it has/ needs to do, both on the site and elsewhere.

Speaking of which, how about adding a staff category specifically for file approvals? That'd get the files approved/ rejected faster, and would allow you to focus on more technical issues.

 

Also, wasn't something about this written somewhere in the website rules? That is, that files go to the files section?

Our main job is file approvals. But JKHub is literally the last thing on my mind in life. I know the other staff members are the same way. It's a modding site for a 15+ year old game, it's not really a priority, and I get no benefits from spending time on it. I make time when I am able to. Waiting a couple days for a file to be approved should be acceptable. If anyone was around during the JK3Files.com days, they would remember it would take weeks, sometimes months before files would get approved. We've never let a file go more than a week without at least being looked at for how to proceed with it. If a file sits there for longer, it's because the author has changes to be made and we are waiting on them.

 

You can read the rules any time, there's a link down in the bottom right of every page you are on. Our file section is a service, and our forum section is a service. We can't force people to submit their mods to our file section. Maybe there is a reason they haven't yet, like maybe it's not quite finished but they want some feedback, or maybe it breaks our file section rules but they want to share it.

[the_raven]

I disagree. People spent a lot of time on a lot of different types of mods. They have a right to feel ownership towards it; they made it. Just because someone can "replicate" something doesn't mean it's up for grabs without giving credit. You didn't make it. Plus, nothing is ever 1:1. Especially in the case of modeling, skinning, and mapping. And keep in mind, many people would like to know what their mods are being used for. It's not always about "this is mine, don't use it" - but more likely "this is mine, let me know when you use it, but most likely you'll be able to". They are free mods, most people are easy going on how they are used, but that doesn't mean people can just steal and claim content as their own. That's exactly what KOTF originally did and why it was a huge deal. Modders still try to do this today, which is why we have to have rules about it.

 

Relative meme: 

 

 

 

 

Our main job is file approvals. But JKHub is literally the last thing on my mind in life. I know the other staff members are the same way. It's a modding site for a 15+ year old game, it's not really a priority, and I get no benefits from spending time on it. I make time when I am able to. Waiting a couple days for a file to be approved should be acceptable. If anyone was around during the JK3Files.com days, they would remember it would take weeks, sometimes months before files would get approved. We've never let a file go more than a week without at least being looked at for how to proceed with it. If a file sits there for longer, it's because the author has changes to be made and we are waiting on them.

 

You can read the rules any time, there's a link down in the bottom right of every page you are on. Our file section is a service, and our forum section is a service. We can't force people to submit their mods to our file section. Maybe there is a reason they haven't yet, like maybe it's not quite finished but they want some feedback, or maybe it breaks our file section rules but they want to share it.

okay