Warlock

Don't open spoilers here. Got it.

I'm totally quoting your candid discussing of NDA disclosures and things you aren't sure legally about on a public forum. Neener neener!

Yeah, and I also just spent the last hour or so chatting with them. Very nice people. I think I got confused because I remember OJP back in the day, and thought this was that. xD

Also...wow! I didn't mean to start some kind of war here! I was just confused as to why in the 2 years since the source was released we hadn't seen a community patch. @.@

Yeah, I think I get it now eez. I think I just misunderstood a bit about what OpenJK was and how it works. I am definitely going to have to dig deep into this mod and see what my coder friend can come up with...

So I can "check" them with OpenJK? Hmm, going to have to look into that. Maybe one of my old coder friends will come up with the fix I've wanted for 10 years. I'm also not thinking of it backwards. I'm well aware that releasing a community-wide patch that fixed the game would break most of the mods. However, virtually every other old modding community I know of had unofficial community patches that were released, and the other modders sure didn't seem to care that they had to update their mods to make them work again, because they were actively involved in the community patch as well and were able to begin fixing their mods to work with the new community patches before they were released. I guess this community just does it different and calls it OpenJK, which makes it confusing for us old farts because it looks like a regular old mod. I still think that going in and fixing things at the asset level would be far easier and produce much faster, streamlined mods, but that's on you guys I guess. If you're afraid to go in and do it, I understand. Legality is a touchy subject. I just don't see how there's anyone to care anymore. Thank you (finally) for the logical explanation though eez, other than "so you want OpenJK." Edit: Oh god, I just saw the like 5 more posts that came in while I posted this! I don't mean "afraid" in any negative way! Don't hurt me! I just mean like "aversion to doing something."

Hmmm... So no, I don't want OpenJK. I want a full game patch that actually digs into the game and fixes the bugs directly, for everyone, without having to run mods over mods over mods.

lolwut? No the problem is that the hitboxes are plain missing in places...i.e. the dimensions of the hitboxes themselves are faulty. There's a missing area of torso-shoulder in the player's hitboxes, and there's a missing area in the saber hitboxes.

No, I want a patch for the base game that fixes all that without having to layer another mod over it, actually altering the source code to fix problems rather than reverse engineering things backwards to try to fix them doubling the chances for errors. Also, with the sabers: the problem isn't lag. We've tested it a hundred times, it can be repeatedly demonstrated that there are missing hitboxes, in particular the blade hitbox doesn't extend the length of the blade. You are probably correct though that people would bitch. That seems to be what people in this game are good at doing. I'll definitely check out OpenJK though, sounds like you've done some work I wasn't aware of...

I thought shaders pointed to shaders and skins pointed to textures. Excuse me for being stupid. I'll cross that one off my list, though. Doesn't change the rest...

Not sure what you mean mini. The skin files always refer to the stormtrooper caps file and if you open the stormtrooper model folder there is no such file. You can "use them" all you like, but I have not once ever seen one of these so-called caps display. The only caps I've ever seen are from people who skin their own caps and reference that file (something I forgot to do with Ben and plan to if I make an updated release). You won't see the caps, btw, unless dismemberment is on, so maybe you just aren't aware they aren't really there for most models...Regardless, that doesn't address the plethora of other bugs that could be easily be patched out of the game if even 10 people on these forums put their heads together. Also, as for the condescending tone, I am simply saying that I understand why in 10 years this hasn't been done...the code was under Raven and LA lock-down. I just wonder why such a community as JKHub exists and hasn't gotten a team together since the source code release to just make a community-wide patch. Edit: Also, yes mini, some font issues could also be patched into assets. Maybe there is a way to make it so that unicode stuff displays properly for all regions, not just your selected one?

So, I know I'm rather new here to the JKHub, but I have been looking around to see what's out there. I came across some posts in the OpenJK project where some coders are suggesting that it's still "illegal" to alter the assets files for JK games. With the close of LucasArts and with Raven releasing the source code to the public, I find it hard to believe that this 10-year old game is not now considered open-source. I have been around many other modding communities, and generally once the devs stop supporting the game and release the code, that's the nod to whatever's left of the community to take on whatever DIY maintenance projects that might be had. Generally a group of coders, such as the ones here at JKHub, will work together combining their best and brightest skills to simply patch the bugs that exist in the game. Now, this may sound like a wild idea, because the purests will say that base MP is as good as it gets already and has no flaws, and you will have many other modders who feel there are various issues they want to tackle, but do not all agree on what those issues are. That's fine, and that's why there can still be many mod projects. There are some major flaws though that a simple community patch might really go a long way to fix: Stormtrooper caps - virtually every model in existence uses this, and the caps targa file is absent from the assets. This is such an easy fix it should obviously be part of any community patch that is fixing the game. Security holes - q3 engine has tons of them. Several server mods have created patches for these. Wouldn't it be easy to just patch a lot of these problems out of the box, rather than relying on mods to do it for us? Master server list - the JKHub modified server browser could just be patched into the game so that everyone can see all the servers all the time, regardless of what mod (or lack thereof) you're on. Hitboxes - this might not be something easily fixable, but wouldn't it be nice if we just patched the base game to eliminate the broken hitboxes? I'm not talking about extending the radius of ghoul2 blade detection to cover it up, either, I mean actually make the saber blade touch the hilt, actually have all the model's hitboxes register damage, etc. Phantom swings have been a plague in this game since the release, and in 10 years no one's truly fixed it. Some of those silly load errors when you aren't running as admin or end up loading the game client twice (VM Fail on Create stuff), or new crashing issues created by the Steam client. Can't we patch those out if we dig into the actual assets? This is not an exhaustive list, just an example on a few things I'm sure most of us could agree would be easiest to just fix at base level with a community patch, and let mods work on top of them. Is the main reason no one wants to do this really because of legality concerns, or is everyone afraid that their precious mods will no longer work if such a thing is done, or that they will no longer have something "special" in their own mod work? If it's the latter, then you need to get more creative, honestly, and not to mention you haven't done much to fix a lot of these issues anyway because they're at the source asset level and can't easily be modded out without actually altering the assets. If it's the former, then I refer back to the beginning of my post: the game is effectively open source at this point. There is no legality to deal with. Let's fix this monster!