A look at JK2 1.02's combat system - promotion for new players

[Boothand]

Hello.

With the Star Wars games all over Humble Bundle, I've gone through with one of my ambitions and started a series of videos, meant to showcase the innovative combat system in JK2 1.02, and to teach it both to beginners and veterans of the game. I have the introduction, and am already working on the next video. Along with this series, I'm also in the progress of organizing a wikia which will complement the following videos. http://jk2saberguide.wikia.com/ (very lacking in content at the moment). I'll probably get around to getting it into JKHub's wiki when it's on its feet!

 

Hopefully this will also eventually shed some light on why on earth someone would stay in 1.02, and why it's not actually a downgrade, but a completely different game altogether than JK2 1.04 and Jedi Academy.

 

Here's my introduction:

 

 

 

Thanks to @@ent for his beloved joMME!

[McGroose]

I've only really played 1.02 once or twice, but I'm very tempted to switch permanently because the 1.04 player base is nearly dead. Most of the videos of jk2 MP are from 1.02 anyway (my favorite uploaders of these videos being tvpath and flov9). I always knew how awesome 1.02 was when I was younger, though I never wanted to try to readjust to the different playstyle or the possibility of some 1.04 mods not working properly for 1.02. Maybe it's time to finally make the switch permanently.

Hell, A lot of my favorite texture mods and favorite maps come from 1.02 players, so...

[Circa]

The Steam version is 1.04 though. Unless your point is to entice the Humble Bundle people to switch to 1.02.

[Boothand]

I've only really played 1.02 once or twice, but I'm very tempted to switch permanently because the 1.04 player base is nearly dead. Most of the videos of jk2 MP are from 1.02 anyway (my favorite uploaders of these videos being tvpath and flov9). I always knew how awesome 1.02 was when I was younger, though I never wanted to try to readjust to the different playstyle or the possibility of some 1.04 mods not working properly for 1.02. Maybe it's time to finally make the switch permanently.

Hell, A lot of my favorite texture mods and favorite maps come from 1.02 players, so...

 

You should give it a try! I'll gladly take part in your readjustment and train with you, if you like. Note though that the European scene is.. well, dominant, seeing that you're from the US. American players usually come to European servers.

 

The Steam version is 1.04 though. Unless your point is to entice the Humble Bundle people to switch to 1.02.

Yeah, there's nothing to do about that, but I'm doing what I can for my community and trying to target people who would like this approach to sword fighting, as well as redirect them to (what I believe to be) the remains of the JK2 community.

[McGroose]

I have the original CD release. I even have the original box and manual for the game. (I bought the manual separately on eBay after a few days of searching just because I thought my jk2 case felt naked without it. XD)

The downgrading process shouldn't be a problem if I have the original CD.

[Futuza]

You should give it a try! I'll gladly take part in your readjustment and train with you, if you like. Note though that the European scene is.. well, dominant, seeing that you're from the US. American players usually come to European servers.

 

Yeah, there's nothing to do about that, but I'm doing what I can for my community and trying to target people who would like this approach to sword fighting, as well as redirect them to (what I believe to be) the remains of the JK2 community.

I think you can still downgrade the steam version, if you just remove the appropriate assets and replace the .exe with 1.02, haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure Steam isn't doing anything fancy to enforce 1.04

[Boothand]

I think you can still downgrade the steam version, if you just remove the appropriate assets and replace the .exe with 1.02, haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure Steam isn't doing anything fancy to enforce 1.04

Oh, it's by all means possible. I have a downgraded Steam version I use for some things. But there's nothing to do with the fact that people would have to go on the internet to get to 1.02. I've placed a visible link on my wiki though!

 

I have the original CD release. I even have the original box and manual for the game. (I bought the manual separately on eBay after a few days of searching just because I thought my jk2 case felt naked without it. XD)

The downgrading process shouldn't be a problem if I have the original CD.

Hah!

Actually it shouldn't be patched to 1.04 if you have the original CD then.

[McGroose]

I managed to downgrade to 1.02, but for some reason, I can't move. I can use my saber and other weapons, force powers, etc. I remember having the same problem when I downgraded years ago. WASD keys are binded properly, but nothing works. Loading Jk2mpconfig in the console doesn't help, either.

And I patched the CD a while back, it was originally 1.04.

[Boothand]

I managed to downgrade to 1.02, but for some reason, I can't move. I can use my saber and other weapons, force powers, etc. I remember having the same problem when I downgraded years ago. WASD keys are binded properly, but nothing works. Loading Jk2mpconfig in the console doesn't help, either.

And I patched the CD a while back, it was originally 1.04.

 

Yeah, that tends to happen between those version switches. Hmm, might have to change it in the wiki if it doesn't work to execute jk2mpconfig. If you don't have any other configs, just go to options and set default, which will reset the controllers. But you'll have to fix things like video resolution too then.

[Boothand]

Next video in the series:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3R_rM2Gdrg

[Boothand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju6trNRHqOQ

[Cerez]

So, how has JKA or the 1.04 update of JKO compromised these mechanics? By introducing the katas? I'm not sure I'm following... You can still block and attack the same way in JKA, can't you?

 

Personally, my big gripe with JK's lightsaber fighting simulation has always been with the hyper-active camera. It makes my head ache to watch. It would have nice to include some sort of a "spring" delay system, where the camera will still follow the character, but with a dampened motion response. This way the player could concentrate on how they're swinging their lightsaber instead of always trying to catch up with the latest image on screen.

[Boothand]

So, how has JKA or the 1.04 update of JKO compromised these mechanics? By introducing the katas? I'm not sure I'm following... You can still block and attack the same way in JKA, can't you?

 

Personally, my big gripe with JK's lightsaber fighting simulation has always been with the hyper-active camera. It makes my head ache to watch. It would have nice to include some sort of a "spring" delay system, where the camera will still follow the character, but with a dampened motion response. This way the player could concentrate on how they're swinging their lightsaber instead of always trying to catch up with the latest image on screen.

 

I will probably make a video with an objective view of the differences, but there are a lot of differences which boil down to personal taste.

When they released the 1.04 "patch", it was not only a couple of bugfixes as they claimed in the changelog. The reason I put patch in quotation mark is that they literally switched out the entire combat system with a new one So in many ways, it just wasn't the same game anymore.

 

To not make this lengthy - the main differences between JKA and Jk2 1.02 are blocking mechanics, red combos, knockback and damage.

 

- In 1.02 there is an idle block zone (when you're not attacking), so to speak, in addition to the classic intersection blocks (attacking in a way that would get in the way of the opposing saber. JKA has an implementation of intersection blocks too).

- In 1.02 you can't chain red swings, but you can follow-up blocked swings - if your opponent blocks and you aim outside their saber collision box, you can keep attacking in a direction of choosing - could theoretically go on forever. This is an incredibly interesting substitute for the creative red chains in JKA.

- In 1.02 knockback is by default higher, so you give impact on your strikes. This means you can't bury your saber in your opponent unless they're pinned, or else they will be nudged away depending on the stance and direction you choose. We do have double/triple hits, but it's done by shaking or doing 360 degrees spins, only aiming the saber constantly into the opponent.

- In 1.02 sabers are incredibly dangerous! A red double hit = 100 + 100 damage. A yellow double hit = 60 + 60.

 

I enjoy JKA and can see why people prefer that, and I absolutely love 1.02 and can see why other people prefer that. In summary it invites very different playstyles.

In 1.02, it's more brutal in a way... JKA can be brutal (I've seen people slice someone up in one swing), but generally speaking it has longer duels and a different mindset. When I play against the best duelers in 1.02, even just attacking them becomes a long chain of what-ifs. If they block, and instantly counter, I must get out of the way or block their attack again, then pursue them if they escape, then get out of the way if I miss, then block, then watch out for red combos, then attack them before their swing lands on me and get out of the way or block their attack immediately after.. and so forth. Duels can last 5 seconds or a minute or more.

 

And in short about 1.04 - it is like a mixture between JKA and 1.02. At first glance, it has JKA animations and swings, but it blocks differently than JKA and 1.02, doesn't have red follow-up combos if someone blocks, and knockback and damages are lower (!) than in 1.02. It probably has other things, but again.. very different gameplay emerges out of such differences (and there are still good 1.04 players, but it has fewer players overall).

 

The games have such different approaches, and I hope 1.02 might appeal to other Star Wars fans as well. After all, it's in my opinion closer to what you'd see in the movies, just a sort of exaggerated version of that.

Not to take away the honor of JKA! It invites its own genuine gameplay, which I appreciate a lot as well.

 

PS. Play around with cg_thirdpersoncameradamp values. They will smooth out the camera response.

[eezstreet]

There are some other differences not noted (but still noteworthy!)

• In 1.02, Absorb will always show a blue shell around your character, similar to Protect. In 1.04 onward, they changed it to only show when a power is being activated on you.
• 1.03 added four duel maps
• Drain and Heal both use less force power in 1.02

The patch notes in 1.03 and 1.04 are scant in what they changed, but there's a VERY huge difference in terms of movement and saber attacks. There's no camera or movement locking when using DFAs, for instance.

[Cerez]

I see, that makes sense now. I would think that they didn't need to update what was already working for JKO. It's great that they've introduced a new fighting system in JKA, but they probably should have left JKO's gameplay as it was. Once a game is released, the developers should not change its rules. It's not fair on the players.

 

Thanks for the tip, @@Boothand! I do remember something about cameradamp. I'll play around with it and see if I can steady the camera little bit, so I can better follow what's going on on-screen. 

[Boothand]

Yeah, hehe, well I didn't even mention any of the force changes. It might be an even more drastical change in the force combat from 1.02 to 1.04. I don't want to go too far into detail about these matters since it tends to create some intense discussions - that's not the point. But it's different beyond comparison.

I think 1.04 tried to balance the force more (not sure if it worked!), but ended up changing it up completely again. I guess 1.02ers feel too restricted and bored in 1.04. Maybe 1.04 players feel 1.02 is too liberal. And it is quite liberal and potentially unbalanced in force, without social rules ^^.

[Boothand]

Finally pulled myself together and made the next video. Basically, what I wish JKA and JK2 1.04 players knew about JK2 1.02:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxNUJiaACXI