saber bot

[CaptainChar]

Just wondering if the saber training bots in SP are spawnable in MP

[CaptainChar]

have to look into what all NPCs are avalable in MP,

[CaptainChar]

the seekers might break it, no idea though

[minilogoguy18]

I wish this function could be fixed in MP but no one has done it yet.

 

They'll spawn but wont behave right.

[CaptainChar]

on a side note, the Saber training bots would make nice Hyperion robots >.>

[eezstreet]

Ragnos / saber droid are broken at an engine level, and nobody really has any idea as to why (my guess is that it's in the engine code handling GLAs - might want to look at their skeletons and see if anything is out-of-the-ordinary)

[minilogoguy18]

Well FM3 made ragnos work and it's easy to do for someone like me, just rig him to the _humanoid skeleton and make fake legs that have transparent textures so that the bones down there have something weighed to them so you don't get errors.

 

The saber bot of course does not use the _humanoid skeleton either, if it fits decently enough it could be weighed and recompiled, I merely just meant getting the AI to behave properly as an NPC.

[CaptainChar]

hmm Might need a new bot like it, or several starting off with the NPC_stormtrooper Ai and progressing up

[eezstreet]

Well FM3 made ragnos work and it's easy to do for someone like me, just rig him to the _humanoid skeleton and make fake legs that have transparent textures so that the bones down there have something weighed to them so you don't get errors.

 

The saber bot of course does not use the _humanoid skeleton either, if it fits decently enough it could be weighed and recompiled, I merely just meant getting the AI to behave properly as an NPC.

If that's how FM3 fixed it, that's not fixing the actual issue behind it, that's just dressing up the issue. I highly doubt that FM3 actually RE'd the game and fixed the issue itself, otherwise it would have been a pretty large headline.

Like I said, it might be worth checking to see if there's any key differences between the saber droid/ragnos and say a rancor in terms of hierarchy etc, bones aside. There's something in the skeleton of Ragnos (I think) that the game doesn't like.

[minilogoguy18]

 

 

 

They're obviously quite different, anyone with modview can see that. The problem is not the bones or heirarchy, bones can be named whatever you want and placed however you want, the thing that is limiting in the game is the NPC classes and the fact that everyone knows that you cannot play as something that does not use the _humanoid.gla in MP.

 

Bots if I'm not mistaken are treated like players and must use the _humanoid.gla, what would make the saber droid usbale in MP would to be either rig it to the _humanoid skeleton and recompile or fix the problem MP has with NPC's. The latter of course still wouldn't let you play as them since the issue with the _humanoid skeleton still being there.

 

Any of the games models with all animations applied can easily be viewed in just about any program, if someone wanted any of these for their viewing pleasure it can be done quite easily.

[eezstreet]

 

They're obviously quite different, anyone with modview can see that. The problem is not the bones or heirarchy, bones can be named whatever you want and placed however you want, the thing that is limiting in the game is the NPC classes and the fact that everyone knows that you cannot play as something that does not use the _humanoid.gla in MP.

 

That's all well and good, but pretty irrelevant. The issue is raised on the client whenever it tries to draw the refEntity (the renderer version of the ent in a sense), and it crashes on the engine. So there's no real accurate way of determining where exactly it happens. However I'm like 90% certain that if you assigned Ragnos/Saber Droid a different GLA/GLM, they wouldn't crash at all. It's likely just another stupid inconsistency between SP and MP though.

 

Bots if I'm not mistaken are treated like players and must use the _humanoid.gla, what would make the saber droid usbale in MP would to be either rig it to the _humanoid skeleton and recompile or fix the problem MP has with NPC's. The latter of course still wouldn't let you play as them since the issue with the _humanoid skeleton still being there.

 

I frankly can't understand why the saber droids weren't on the humanoid skeleton to begin with. They could have been just fine on the humanoid skeleton with modified animations. But I digress.

[minilogoguy18]

What your saying about the saber droid would NEVER work, the reason being is the game calls animations by using a simple naming convention of the sequence. What do you think would happen if you wanted the droid to crouch and call the correct sequence? Let alone not have a name mismatch for a player model calling an animation that belongs to the droid that has different proportions and structure? It'd require I'm sure a ton of work coding wise to make it call the correct sequence while knowing that the player is using the droid and not any other model.

 

I think all this so far is a huge waste of time, if you want ragnos to work in MP it's retardedly simple, rig him to the _humanoid skeleton the way I proposed and compile, anyone can do it, it's easy.

 

The saber droid can be done the same way but it'll likely look retarded since the skeleton doesn't fit, I still say the best shot is to get NPC files working in MP the way they do in SP. I don't know why anyone would want to fight an NPC or BOT anyway, a mediocre human is more of a challenge than the hardest AI from my experience but I did a whole lot of 1 on 1 no force dueling in my day.

[eezstreet]

What your saying about the saber droid would NEVER work, the reason being is the game calls animations by using a simple naming convention of the sequence. What do you think would happen if you wanted the droid to crouch and call the correct sequence? Let alone not have a name mismatch for a player model calling an animation that belongs to the droid that has different proportions and structure? It'd require I'm sure a ton of work coding wise to make it call the correct sequence while knowing that the player is using the droid and not any other model.

They already do this to some extent. They do it for Rancors too. They just don't do it in MP.

I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say here though. I was saying that Raven could have put the saber droid animations onto the _humanoid skeleton (sound familiar? probably because Raven did the exact same thing with Alora, which worked just fine there) and made the saber droid used the _humanoid skeleton. Keeps animations from being all over the freaking place. Especially in the case of the rockettrooper, which weirdly got a separate GLA despite being the same proportions as the player.

I think all this so far is a huge waste of time, if you want ragnos to work in MP it's retardedly simple, rig him to the _humanoid skeleton the way I proposed and compile, anyone can do it, it's easy.

Name five people in the JKHub community who can rig player models and I'll believe you when you say that anyone can do it. I don't think anyone can either, considering there isn't a decent tutorial at all on JKHub. I don't know how modellers operate, but we coders don't just slam a few generic C++ or C tutorials on people and then claim that doing everything is "retardedly simple" or that "anyone can do it". Frankly it irritates me when people do that, but I'll stop there before I get too agitated.

 

The saber droid can be done the same way but it'll likely look retarded since the skeleton doesn't fit, I still say the best shot is to get NPC files working in MP the way they do in SP. I don't know why anyone would want to fight an NPC or BOT anyway, a mediocre human is more of a challenge than the hardest AI from my experience but I did a whole lot of 1 on 1 no force dueling in my day.

it crashes on the engine

I believe I made this pretty clear as to why this doesn't already work.

[minilogoguy18]

If there are no tutorials and it isn't possible then how do you suppose I or anyone else who knows how to put a model in game learned?

 

We found tutorials pertaining to enveloping a model to bones in the program we're using then once we grasped the concept we got the skeleton file and fit our models to it, not sure about others but I personally followed the tutorial that comes with the JO/JA SDK written by Tim "Spacemonkey" Appleby on how to put a character into the game.

 

Alora only has like 3-5 moves that are unique to her NPC class, the saber droid would need A LOT more than that. The rocket trooper doesn't fit, download Mod Tool like I said, actually import the models and compare. Even if you did envelope say the rocket trooper to the _humanoid skeleton SERIOUS clipping would occur.

 

Find someone to texture my Kain model and I will dedicate my day off to recording a video on how to put a character model into the game starting earlier than most would, the model wont even be fit to the skeleton or segmented properly, will also show fast and easy cap creation and tools that can help quickly make LOD's as well as how to make them work using the main meshes own weight map saving TONS of time.

[eezstreet]

From what I've read from the SDK, that would involve assuming that the user knows how to use Softimage XSI. Obviously, this is not the case since Eclipse had to spend a long time asking for assistance rigging his Vincent Valentine model. And what did he give in return? A tutorial which detailed how to rig models using Softimage XSI.

 

That makes me realize that two things are wrong with what you just posted:

 

1. The SDK obviously didn't do him any good. Don't get me wrong, Eclipse strikes me as fairly intelligent, intelligent and patient enough to make a Vincent Valentine model. Course..we don't have his tut on this site either.

 

2. People don't just do stuff in exchange for knowledge. It shouldn't be that people should texture a model in order to get knowledge. That makes a modding society fairly broken. Relating my own experiences here: I did not just randomly decide to start coding. People like Xycaleth, Didz, Razish, BobaFett and Scooper helped me learn how to code. If someone were to walk onto #JACoders right now, I would probably help them. I've written as many coding tuts as time/whatnot allows. I didn't ask for something in exchange for those tuts.

[minilogoguy18]

I taught Ecplipse how to do it on MSN those years ago, his tutorial was a fairly bad one though, it can be done better than he shows in less time.

 

I only mentioned the textures because if I'm gonna record a video I'm not going to do it with a base model or someone else's because I want to show from an earlier step, using a model that in no means was made specifically for this game, to show that there is no such thing as "modeling for JA". There is only modeling and taking any model and making it work for the game you want it to work for.

 

Everyone here has me on steam or xfire just about but no one ever asked, those that did ask I showed them like Eclypse, Chalk, Archangel and Lasha(from GF). There are also many others that aren't even using Softimage but I try to help them out with other things pertaining to putting a character, animations or a vehicle in game.

 

Like I said you can use the tutorial that came with the SDK but you have to learn the basic functions of the software first, doing this helps you understand tutorials that aren't written for a specific program, I follow Maya and Blender tutorials for modeling techniques all the time even though I don't have either program installed nor could I even tell you how to model anything in them. The main thing to learn like I said is basic functions, the explorer so you can set the heirarchy up, how to set/edit envelopes and the exporting process is covered in Spacemonkey's tut but is also still up on psyk0siths site.

[CaptainChar]

I also know from my Death Egg map, since the final boss of sonic 2 was supposed to be present, that custom models can use custom animations etc for attacks, if dragons from neo dark ages have taught me anything, there is alot we can do for customs in JA, its just putting forth that effort to make it happen, im still learning my way around 3dmax id love to actually be able to model and uv-wrap etc

[minilogoguy18]

The only thing that you're restricted to really is NPC class, for instance you can't make a ptyerodactyl or something that can fly and walk on land, something though that walks around and just attacks is simple, if there is a NPC that behaves similarly to what you're making then it will work.

[CaptainChar]

most NPC i have in mind will use the stormtrooper NPC file, i just want lots of things that shoot at you