How Langerd would make a new Battlefront game

[Langerd]

This will be kind of long post. With my personal opinion on the battlefront game concept in general. Even so this topic is in some way old - Because after two new disaster games made by DICE in my head there were many and plenty ideas to make this game better. (my opinion of course) 
I will also point out that i have 22 years old. And lately i am not playing a lot of new games. I stick to the older titles even i come back to them. I even played some NES games not on console itself - on phone emulator and on some sites. 

I simply found magic in the simplicity of many games of the past. Even with less content and engines capabilities people tried to achieve spectacular results. And they achieved it to this state that many older games are much superior to this day with the atmosphere, gameplay or even music. 

I played Both Classic Battlefronts and a bit of the new ones. But it was enough for me to feel how these new game were made... even with its bullcrap practices and lack of content. 
I didnt like them... i was comparing them to the old battlefronts and i would prefer to go back to them. But what were the most important reasons? 

I will start with comparing new games with older. For old games all classes had their work to do. Of course basic trooper - the first avaible class was not THE WORST class in the game. It had its purpose - fast unit with normal carbine. On short and medium distance this class was great. Also Huge fire power and guns had very good aim. Simple first class. For every fraction this class was i believe - the same. What about new game? Well .. Battlefront 1 EA completely removed classes so i will focus on the sequel for comparising. Soldiers class have their default fraction guns - which again were mostly the same. ... And here is good start for criticizing. Every class have 4 other weapons. But these weapons were not added like the default guns for every class. These were only 4 weapon - for every fraction the same. So later in game we see clone trooper - heavy class with the FWMB-10 reapeating blaster ... which had 0 sense for me. This weapon should be only for the First Order heavy class. 


 

DC-15A (Clone Trooper)

E-5 (Battle Droid)

A280C (Rebel Soldier)

E-11 (Stormtrooper)

EL-16 (Resistance Soldier)

F-11D (First Order Stormtrooper)

Only the first gun is different for every fraction... rest of them are for all fractions - these 3 weapons are the same. So .. Rebel assault trooper used resistance trooper weapon?
 

A280 - it is rebel alliance on of the most common weapons

CR-2 - This weapon shots green bolts and dont look nice for my opinion

EL-16HFE - this weapon is was used by resistance (as far i remember Poe used it the first scenes of Force Awakens) 

and.. that is all for assault. For the start i will say that is .. weird? Why giving clones access to the resistance weapons? Or First Order troopers? And there are many Star Wars weapons that would replace the CR-2 (i dont remember this weapon from movies at all) 

But we are going to the point were i need to talk about this game in general. ... Before players were just selecting classes and .. play. It was fun... It was enough to get them what they wanted. New game made system like in Call of Duty or Battlefield games - with every match we get experience points and credits. To later purchase the weapons. I dont like these systems in general.. Because many times first weapons that are available - are weaker. So what ? You just play the game to buy new weapons that are better. Not to mention there are these star cards which are bonus equiments , bonuses or even perks... You play to unlock stuff... 

Why i think that this system is bad? Because most of the weapons, star cards that are harder to get - are better. Why is not enough for players to be better player just with.. the.. skill . How you play actually. For Old battlefront everyone had the same changes. Just .. the same sniper rifles and skill - that is it. It was enough .. it was great. But not the best. The best option would be to balance getting equipment - not better... at least not always better and i will tell you later why. In New battlefront you have better star cards than the others. It makes game fresh - adding more options gives us more variation of gameplay. Yes aaaaanddd No.... Why not in this game? Because of the lack of balance. 
For Battlefront classic changing the class would be game changing in many ways. But this game was ONLY focused on classes. No customanization picking weapons etc. It was enough but when we are going to make games nowadays we want to surpass old game even so.. i think that they made amazing system in the past. We want to make it better. How to do it? Not how DICE did that.. because classes are not so game changing... they were there but it felt flat.

So what i would do. I would look at the game which was not only look on the classes... but payed much much attention at the weapons and equipment . I am Talking about Team Fortress 2
well you can say that - these are completely different games - i am not telling to change game into TF2 clone or to just completely rip ideas from valve. I am suggesting to focus on the core of the classes and their equipment system. 


For Battlefront II we have 4 classes. I would Add 1 Class which would be engineer or just guy with medpacks etc . (ONE of not many good things about the new battlefront with the extra classes - like SBD or the jetpack trooper.. For every fraction these classes were completely different like in the old games.. still i would change many things but i want to focus on the main classes) .
In Team Fortress we have 9 classes. Every Class is completely different. And not only that - every weapon, equipment that you just for every class is game changing - so meaning that you picked some class AND LATER you pick different weapons and equipments. This gave players so much variation to play the game. Not only You could choose the class that your team needed - you could change the way you play as the class. It is like this 



In battlefront II ? 4 Classes and you can change weapons and  Star Cards... Yeah they can change a lot and can change how you play as the class
But in Team Fortress 2 you have 9 classes (so ... 9 classes .. look at the picture above. See this green rocke launcher? Soldier has 7 different rocke launchers. All of them change your game style) .. primary weapon , secondary weapon  and 3rd slot for melee weapon. Every class had at least 4 different main weapons 4 different secondary equipment / weapon and also 4-5 melee weapons.... You get the idea. AND YOUR WEAPONS and equipments changed  how your class worked - not some stupid star cards. It was you - weapons you know - your skill and class possibilities. Also in most way TF2 was balanced (but that is debatable.. i am talking about my idea of the game). Weapons should change how you play as the certain class - but it shouldnt be OP and it shouldnt change that class entirely Even so in TF2 some classes had build were class was completely different - even so IT WAS NEVER LIKE that one class had the best build for every situation. Some builds were weak for defensive but it was strong for attacking. Some builds were better for open maps - and some for close area corridor maps. 

So how i would put this together in battlefront game.

You have 5 classes -

1. Assault Trooper
2. Heavy Trooper 
3. Specialist  
4. Officer
5. Engineer/Pilot


(The jet trooper here would be an officer class) 

- later classes like in old battlefront games (and new ones)

For Clones and Droids
- Aerial - Jet Trooper and Enfoncer -  Commando/Arc Trooper

- Aerial - SBD  and Enfoncer  - Droideka 

For Rebels and Imperials
-Aerial - Rebel Jump Trooper and Enfocer - Wookie

-Aerial - Rocket Trooper and Enfocer - Death Trooper

For Resistance and First Order
-Aerial - Resistance Jump Trooper and Enfocer - Wookie (hmm... again) 

-Aerial - Rocket Trooper and Enfocer - Flame Trooper (but here i am not ok with this.. )


For the start - remove these 3 bullcrap weapons -
 

A280 

CR-2 

EL-16HFE 

As the options for every fraction... Add 4 (If too many add 3 but you will get the idea) or 3 weapons for every fraction AND Every class - DIFFERENT. 

So the - Rebel Assault trooper will have different 4 weapons to choose from - Stormtrooper too  Clone too etc. 

Heavy trooper class for imps for example 

- DLT-19 heavy blaster rifle (as the first weapon
- second weapon - T 21
- Third weapon - TL 50
- Last will be ... Rocket Launcher. Like in the old classisc battlefront. But again every fraction will have different weapon look (but the function will be the same in this weapon)

BUT YOU ARE UNLOCKING THEM easier.... And That doesnt mean that rocket launcher will be the best no.. no no... These weapons will be just different - not better not worse. 

- DLT-19 - will make your heavy class faster and you have high rate of fire. Weak aim
- T 21 - You are slower and your fire rate is much much lower but bolts are dealing huge amount of damage - both people and vehicle. Also good aim
- TL 50 - You are moving like using DLT-19 but  your rate of fire is lower. Medium damage and medium aim. You can charge the concussion blast as secondary fire
- Rocket Launcher - You are slow using this weapon. You deal a huge amount of damage - well aim. But you have limited Ammunition (doesnt mean you cant find ammuntion or some engineer will give you) and need to reload after every shot. Huge amount of damage both soldiers and vehicles

And remember . You still can change second slot.Here are the options

- Grenade
- this slot will be blaster pistol (mostly required when using rocket launcher)
- trip mine
 (of course we can choose one) 
-Detpack 

And last slot would be (not like TF2 because in star wars melee weapon is not an common option for infantry)
Some atrubutes. You can choose one. 

- More Ammunition
- More Health
- More Stamina
- More Mobility 

Example of gameplay. 

It is open area map. So we dont want DLT-19 to use. We will rather take T-21 or TL-50. In case of vehicles - Rocket Launcher Or T-21 will be great too.

But Rocket Launcher will be nice for Corridor maps as well. Dlt-19 will be great in tight places. 
You can also use blaster pistol to help your team attacking from longer distance - and closer if needed. T-21 in close combat is not that great - harder to deal with more than 2 enemies at once with low fire rate. ...

Aaaaand Just take mostly all from the older battlefronts. Command Posts were amazing idea for matches - it was mixed with non stop defense and assault. With Classes? Give every fraction class different weapons choice - prevernt clones to use first order or resistance guns for example... focus more on the game changing equipment not these perks and star cards - In old battlefronts primary weapon, secondary pistol and two types of grenades were ENOUGH to make amazing simple class... not like in Battlefront 1 EA - Everyone is Rambo T21 user with jetpack  and grenades.... Stick to the original classic concept and dig inside of it like Team Fortress 2 have done - To be honest for most Team Fortress 2 players default builds.... were the best builds. 

I was talking mostly about old Team Fortress 2. 


If you read this all .. Thank You! If you were bored - i am sorry ... If you are in the middle and you are bored already - dont read this This is forum so i just wanted to share my opinion


 

[Jeff]

Dice needs to read this. Great points.

[the_raven]

Well, you could try to assemble a team, get Cryo or some other engine, and make your own game. Sure, it wouldn't be Star Wars for legal reasons, but if a game is good, who cares if it's not Star Wars?

 

Also, to your point on the weapons available to the different factions: do you think it'd make sense for Rebels to have access to the DC-15, E-11, and the E-5? I think so, since Rebels are supposedly underfunded and would thus scavenge and capture other factions' gear. Not sure what alternate weapons would the other factions' grunts have access to since droid grunt always carried E-5's, and since the Stormtroopers always carried E-11's. Maybe some variations? Like regular E-11 (no bonus); E-11 with stock (better accuracy); E-11 with extended mag (more ammo), etc.? Now there were obviously other weapons available to the factions in the old EU (maybe in the new one as well), but one has to do research before integrating them.

The Heavy class, i think, should be left like in the classic BF's - rocket launcher + blaster pistol - with maybe the option to replace the rocketlauncher with a heavy repeater, or blaster pistol with heavy blaster pistol or smg.

Specialist would be able to choose its specialization - medic, engineer, saper, something else.

Sniper, maybe left as is in BF2 classic, maybe replace the sentry droid with a cloaking device, or have it as an option.

[Langerd]

Well, you could try to assemble a team, get Cryo or some other engine, and make your own game. Sure, it wouldn't be Star Wars for legal reasons, but if a game is good, who cares if it's not Star Wars?

Also, to your point on the weapons available to the different factions: do you think it'd make sense for Rebels to have access to the DC-15, E-11, and the E-5? I think so, since Rebels are supposedly underfunded and would thus scavenge and capture other factions' gear. Not sure what alternate weapons would the other factions' grunts have access to since droid grunt always carried E-5's, and since the Stormtroopers always carried E-11's. Maybe some variations? Like regular E-11 (no bonus); E-11 with stock (better accuracy); E-11 with extended mag (more ammo), etc.? Now there were obviously other weapons available to the factions in the old EU (maybe in the new one as well), but one has to do research before integrating them.

The Heavy class, i think, should be left like in the classic BF's - rocket launcher + blaster pistol - with maybe the option to replace the rocketlauncher with a heavy repeater, or blaster pistol with heavy blaster pistol or smg.

Specialist would be able to choose its specialization - medic, engineer, saper, something else.

Sniper, maybe left as is in BF2 classic, maybe replace the sentry droid with a cloaking device, or have it as an option.

Ok like idea of the accessories to the weapons - for example stun mode for a weapon or some kind of electric bolt from blaster. Not these star cards things..

 

Also yeah... but dont mix the eras. Clone could take E-5 for example because it deals more damage - example.

 

What i hated was that DC-15a was for heavy class. I thought it should be for assault as an option. Slower fire rate but more damage and high accuracy.

 

I think heavy should be able to pick weapon like T 21 - fire rate is low but damage and acuracy is high. This weapon is not light. See Sandtrooper in the movie holding it like it is some kind of long pipe.

 

Well maybe to just add weapons choosing depends on which map and which site - attack or defense. If you want shoot the hell of the enemies in medium range - dlt-19 (for clones minigun)

 

For aerial and enfoncer class i didnt like some things in new battlefront - couldnt be first person (i dont know why people dont even want this as option... make FPS too goddamnit) for class like wookie with his bowcaster i felt .. stipid. This weapon has like 3-4 scopes and i cant use them (not mention .. like nobody is using scope for e11 like it is crap or something) .second thing - they have more health and deal more with every weapon. Shouldnt be like that. For aerial i would give two types of jetpack to choose - one type like darktrooper in bf1 classic and second one would be like jet trooper. Or maybe mix them two - as an option. The Jetpack SBD was my favourite class in the DICE game.. but he was OP in my opinion. Movements for aerials where made great.

 

These two classes have more health than the normal ones. I think it should only be in case of the SBD and Wookie. These Classes should be dofferent in all fractions. Like in old Battlefronts

[dg1995]

My primary criticism of EA Battlefront games were lack of Command Posts.(Which played an important role of adding a lot of variety for original Battlefront games) and the vehicle system.(I liked the old one better than the power up type it is now)

 

Fortunately it looks like they are adding command posts for the future updates of EA Battlefront 2 but vehicles remain the same.(So I'll wait for the third game instead)

 

As for classes , I agree with what you said but with this addition that imo classes weren't balanced well in original Battlefront 2. Engineers had annoying bombs they could throw like grenades along with having the med packs.(I would have given the med pack to sniper class)

[Langerd]

My primary criticism of EA Battlefront games were lack of Command Posts.(Which played an important role of adding a lot of variety for original Battlefront games) and the vehicle system.(I liked the old one better than the power up type it is now)

 

Fortunately it looks like they are adding command posts for the future updates of EA Battlefront 2 but vehicles remain the same.(So I'll wait for the third game instead)

 

As for classes , I agree with what you said but with this addition that imo classes weren't balanced well in original Battlefront 2. Engineers had annoying bombs they could throw like grenades along with having the med packs.(I would have given the med pack to sniper class)

I totally agree. Vehicles should be usable by more than the one person. Also - command posts were classic, genius idea. It created true feeling of battlefront and it pished units to use tactic - focus how to control the enemy point.Some command posts were harder to take - by longer capture time or more defenses - sometimes less which made command post hard to defense and to assault (for example rhen var citadel this long bridge with command post at the end. No cover anywhere).

 

To be honest i always thought that battlefront 1 made everything perfect for me. This game was ... simple. Just simple and it worked the best. Classes were easy to use. And every fraction had different equipments - rebel sniper could double scope when scout trooper couldnt. Also darktrooper had the same amount of health like normal stormtrooper. Wookie had more hp but not that much.

 

I dont know why players want to focus on the more and more possibilities - simple games are many times the best ones. Maybe that is why i am amazed by games like unreal tournament - you have 9 weapons (or 10) with seconddary fire. And thats it - kill enemies with what you got. Take the flag etc. If you had more than one weapon - you choose what weapon is the best in the situation you are in. Enemy is far? Shock rifle him or use aniper rifle. Hell even minigun could work. If he is close? Flak canon is the best option. But shock rifle can deal with enemy behind the wall with the combo.

 

Or ? Old game like worms world party. Task is simple - kill other worms. But you have sooooooo much possibilities here - and THIS IS the main part of this game! But that game made everything fine.

 

In newer game? WOW YOU CAN DO THIS AND THAT AND THAT AN THIS .. SO MANY OPTIONS WOW SO MANY SKILLS .. but the overall sense of these skills variation is without any sense - some times some skills are better thN the others .. in every situation. Because equipments should ALWAYS focus on changing the game - not changing a little. Or TOO MUCH where you are OP.

 

That is why i hated DICE for battlefront 1 - by removing classes completely and giving every player to choose what they want - sounds cool? Well ... on paper yes. But final result is terrible... people look for the best build on the internet and everyone focus on better equipments than the others. In TF2 there some useless weapons yes.. but in this game magic was shining through when you actually realise that - EVEN YOUR SECONDARY weapon could change how you play ... to squeeze from your character as much as possible.

For example - Pyro man is using his flamethrower for well - putting enemies on fire. And you could use a secondary weapon called flare gun. This weapon had 16 shots , reload after every shot. It deals 30hp and lit enemy on fire - you need to directly hit the enemy with the flare. Also it has bonus - when you will hit enemy that is already on fire you grant critical hit dealing 90hp ..well it was OP but it granted you if you was aiming well and if you predicted enemie's movement.

 

The other weapon? Was detonator (there more secondary weapons than two... you could use for example - normal shotgun. Why? Because Pyro couldnt be lit on fire. So when Pyro vs Pyro - you take shotgun) and how this one worked? It was similar to flare gun but direct hot was mini crit - 35%more damage. Also you could detonate the flare mid air and by aiming well you could flame more than one enemy. Seems great but a little worse than the flare gun right? Well... there is also one catch. You could shot beneath your feet to jump higher - to reach to higher places. It took a bit of your life tho but you could do amazing things with this. You were more mobile and you could get to higher places where no other pyro couldnt without it. This small change increased your ambushes and kills from behind gave new options and change class. ---

But why i am discribing this much? I dont want to describe all weapons from tf2 ... but look at this. I described two weapons JUST two weapons. From one class. ONE.

 

The same game changing mechanic should be added to the battlefront. However TF2 made something that staryed this in other games - the classes for defense with different build were focised more on the attack. And this should be added to the battlefront but not as much. It should depend on the map . You wouldnt use shotgun on the open desert... you would use it in caves. And open area and cave would be on the same map. So?? Position plays the roll here.

 

Dont make these star cards to be gamexhanging.. because they fail. Horribly. It also completely removes any immersion as being a soldier - with specified specialization. Dont make Flying Rambo with minigun and jetpack.... that is bad... maybe not completely but for battlefront gamestyle it is BAD... or you get bullshit like we have in newest battlefield - Faster bullets skill.... .. your World War II soldier.... has.... faster... bullets...

 

Wat

[the_raven]

One thing i didn't like in classic BF2 (it's a small thing, but still) was that when you played on Polis Masa or space maps, and would get out of the airlock, you'd start loosing heath quickly and would die. Ok, i can understand the vacuum of space, the cold, and maybe space radiation, but it shouldn't be like that for every faction. Rebels, who have regular fabric clothes and no breath-masks of any kind should normally die out in space, but Storm and Clonetroopers? They have life-support systems in their amours, and even if their amours are not exactly space-adapted, they're still sealable, so should provide at least some temporary protection. Droids shouldn't be affected at all: they're machines, they don't need air, don't fear cold or radiation. I understand that's all a matter of balance, but i'd rather have immersion and logical accuracy.

[the_raven]

specjalization

A bit of an off-topic:

You wouldn't happen to be from central Europe or the Balkans by any chance, would you?

[Langerd]

A bit of an off-topic:

You wouldn't happen to be from central Europe or the Balkans by any chance, would you?

I am from Poland and i wrote all of this on my phone. So sry for mistakes - my screen on the phone is very bad for writing. 

 

 

One thing i didn't like in classic BF2 (it's a small thing, but still) was that when you played on Polis Masa or space maps, and would get out of the airlock, you'd start loosing heath quickly and would die. Ok, i can understand the vacuum of space, the cold, and maybe space radiation, but it shouldn't be like that for every faction. Rebels, who have regular fabric clothes and no breath-masks of any kind should normally die out in space, but Storm and Clonetroopers? They have life-support systems in their amours, and even if their amours are not exactly space-adapted, they're still sealable, so should provide at least some temporary protection. Droids shouldn't be affected at all: they're machines, they don't need air, don't fear cold or radiation. I understand that's all a matter of balance, but i'd rather have immersion and logical accuracy.

I would love to play the map on battlefront like this scene 

 

https://youtu.be/VjXIswnrWTA?t=53

[dg1995]

One thing i didn't like in classic BF2 (it's a small thing, but still) was that when you played on Polis Masa or space maps, and would get out of the airlock, you'd start loosing heath quickly and would die. Ok, i can understand the vacuum of space, the cold, and maybe space radiation, but it shouldn't be like that for every faction. Rebels, who have regular fabric clothes and no breath-masks of any kind should normally die out in space, but Storm and Clonetroopers? They have life-support systems in their amours, and even if their amours are not exactly space-adapted, they're still sealable, so should provide at least some temporary protection. Droids shouldn't be affected at all: they're machines, they don't need air, don't fear cold or radiation. I understand that's all a matter of balance, but i'd rather have immersion and logical accuracy.

Droids were the only race that could survive the Polis Masa space.

[the_raven]

I am from Poland and i wrote all of this on my phone. So sry for mistakes - my screen on the phone is very bad for writing.

 

I would love to play the map on battlefront like this scene

https://youtu.be/VjXIswnrWTA?t=53

Don't worry about it, just say the j and got curious

 

Oh yeah, that one's always been one of my favourite scenes, though looking back, it was a pretty strange and silly thing to do - sure, the Jedi cut a hole and they got in, but the troopers left on the surface? What were they hoping to achieve by storming an anti-aircraft turret armed only with blaster rifles?

 

I'm actually surprised nobody bothered to make something similar to this, considering all the potential.

[the_raven]

Droids were the only race that could survive the Polis Masa space.

They were? Huh, didn't notice.