Cerez

Okay, I'll spread the word, then.

It's a secret.

Huh? o.O

Simply because no-one from LucasArts could be bothered going around shutting down mods that were not endangering their interests, to put it in layman's terms. Any creative work based on copyrighted material or intellectual property is an artwork whose fate is controlled by the copyright holder, and whose nature is legally questionable. That would be because some people here are quite immature in their approach to dealing with conflicting views to their own. >.<'

I could ask the same on your end, minilogoguy. How are some people so insensitive to others' feelings that they can't see past their own objectives? The thing is we can call each other names, but this is not a mature way to relate to each other, and it won't solve anything. I'm getting the feeling that some people in this community just don't want to see or even consider that their actions may be crude and inconsiderate towards others, and if we don't receive some relevant feedback on the staff's point of view on this, I may be forced to make up my own opinion about the real nature of this community. I have to say that I've seen much better forums where members have acted much more responsible for their actions. If you can't learn to respect each others' point of view and feelings about certain matters, then I really feel sad for the state of things here, and I certainly feel that my efforts are in vain. Thanks AshuraDX. I appreciate your detailed explanation of the events that took place from your point of view, and for your willingness to make up for any mistakes made. I have been in contact with Captain and I can say with certainty that the criticism received was indeed too harsh, and however helpful your intentions may have been, they did not produce the desired effect on the person you were trying to help. Now, Captain is not unreasonable in his point of view, either, and what he felt was unsupportive criticism that tried to push certain practical ideas onto him that were not in line with his vision for this project. Instead of trying to understand the situation and listening to Captain's wishes, @@minilogoguy18 and you persisted in your efforts to prove a point based on your experience which effectively offended Captain and made him feel that his creative vision and project was being jeopardised. This is why I feel we need to have rules of conduct in place that define what constitutes as constructive criticism, and what is considered an abusive form of criticism that many members feel does not make them feel welcome in this community. This is not a matter of how sensitive someone is. We all have our breaking points. We all hold certain things dear. It is about understanding each other, and putting effort into respecting each other's views and visions, and placing them in importance above our own desire to prove a certain idea or meet a certain agenda. If a member decides to showcase their creative work, let their vision be respected. Don't go barging in trying to prove your own view if you feel your view is not welcome. And if you happen to offend a member with your views, responsibly apologise, and cease to interfere with their project. In real life we don't go forcing our ideas onto our friends despite their dislike of our thoughts and approach. Why do we need to do this online? Just because we don't see the other person face to face doesn't mean we need to disrespect their views, thoughts, or feelings about a subject. Let's be mature and civilised, shall we? EDIT: And I don't like to do this, but since you've put Captain in the spotlight, let me illustrate the wrong in your approach, too -- in the post that started this argument after your initial criticism: "Well I dont mind wether he does or not" -- How can you not mind what the OP thinks of your criticism or how they feel about it? This shows complete ignorance and lack of care towards the views of the member you are trying to help, and illustrates a selfish attitude in someone else's creative project thread. Note that you've added "as a personal challenge with a simple goal" after this incident to your original post, as well as "to create a good looking and good performing game mesh". The original post read as quoted above. I'll get you to have a close look at the highlighted "I've" and "my". Does it at any point read to you that your proposal was to assist Captain in understanding his project? It certainly reads to me like you have taken matters into your own hands and decided to do a better job than Captain at his own project. And that's how it read to Captain, too. Which is why he responded with the retort you have quoted above. This is also why I have responded with my humorous retort in the same thread to illustrate the irony in your approach, but you don't seem to have taken a hint from that. As you can see, the description in your point of view of the transpired events is not entirely truthful, and I would like you to consider the situation in its entirety with a responsible, mature, and honest attitude. I would also ask the rest of the staff to review this incident, and to feel free to contact me or @@CaptainCrazy to discuss this event in detail. I hope that serious thought will be given to the real life example presented here, and that we can reach an understanding and establish a fair course of action for the future. In the unlikely event that I receive no correspondence and my plea is ignored, I will be resigning from this community as I won't see it fit for a productive creative environment. So for the sake of all the rest of the members here, @@Circa, @@eezstreet, and the rest of the staff, let's consult and please consider taking certain action regarding these events in preventive measures so that such sour incidents do not occur again, and that this community is established as a peaceful and creative place/haven for people to pursue their passions without attacks or prejudice.

Well said, @@CrimsonStrife. I intended to pay a model-maker to make and rig a model for in-game use, but I wasn't aware of the full legal implications of such an offer. Any copyrighted material is the property of the copyright holder, and any creative based on that copyrighted material is questionable in nature, and its fate is fully controllable by the copyright owner. By paying for the making of such art you are endangering the intercepting engagement of the copyright holder. If the copyright holder requests that content be pulled down, or removed from circulation, you must abide by their request immediately. However, it is perfectly alright to sell your own creative work that you have created from completely original material, and it seems certain mods may be considered to have an option for sale.

I know you're trying to soften the situation MagSul, but the fact remains that @@CaptainCrazy did not feel @@AshuraDX's "assistance" was helpful one bit, and then on top of that, instead of pulling back, AshuraDX engaged in a direct confrontation with Captain. At what point in all this did the criticism and "help" Captain received actually help with his progress on the model? In the end it only discouraged him from continuing his work. That's not the way to help someone. If you're going to assist, be considerate towards the person you're assisting, and their wishes.

This is exactly what I'm talking about! http://jkhub.org/topic/4356-ahsoka-tano-lightsaber/page-2 Why does a staff member feel to need to creatively challenge a member in order to prove a point without thinking how that will affect that member? After the member has been severely criticised. That's egotistic behaviour. It doesn't help anyone but serves to boost the staff member's ego. This is not responsible action, and certainly not considerate. And then on top of this the staff member engages in a direct conflict with the member, making matters only worse! This is why we need rules for member and staff alike.

Thanks MagSul. I think the "cold-shouldered"-ness comes partly from this lack of a general supportive approach, where the person helping is not really thinking about the situation of the individual they're helping. Often opinions are expressed just for the sake of showing off one's ego. This kind of behaviour leaves newcomers and even members who have spent a longer time here often feeling put down or otherwise empty. As you and @@Mandalorian have pointed out, there are many members here who have had years of experience in their skills. They should be respected for their knowledge, skills, and wisdom, but there is no need for people to show off their big ego. Being humble goes a long way to earning respect. If everyone had a supportive intention in mind, there would much less alienation and cold-shoulderedness in this community. That's why I'm proposing that the rules/guidelines advise on a supportive approach that binds people in the community rather than an individualistic approach that promotes egotism.

Thanks Eez. I'm not suggesting this is common here -- thankfully it's far from it! In fact, I'm quite proud of the way the staff has managed recent events. My original direction with this topic has actually been swayed off a little towards particular other events I was little aware of that Darth pointed out. Going back to the start, I only recommend that there be guidelines for all members on certain behaviours that are alienating to other members, such as too harsh criticism that serves not to aid the member in their creative development, but to discourage them from further attempt at their work. The key thing here is not the fact that the work is being criticised, but the intention that goes on behind the criticism. For criticism to be constructive, one's primary motive needs to be to help the artist progress and complete their work, and not to throw them off their game in order to express one's own selfish opinions. Too much criticism that is geared against an individual's work, passion, and person in essence is not much different to a direct assault on that individual. The effect is the same: the person is frightened off and they will never attempt to create another artwork with the same tools/approach or in the same community again -- or perhaps ever. There needs to be a general approach that promotes a friendly and productive creative community atmosphere, and "Don't be a dick" does nothing to promote that.

OH MY GOD!! You guys fixed the rain in MP!! I LOVE YOU!!! ♥♥♥ I've been waiting forever for this, and all the Mac retail versions of the game seemed to get it wrong. They still do, to this day. Now the ambience on this map (my favourite) is just right. I want to donate. How can I? Does the team have a PayPal account?

Darth, I don't want to criticise you, but even in your response here I can feel a lack of respect towards another individual. I'm not sure who Deviance is, I've never met him/her, but I'm sure he/she wasn't the only one responsible for the hostilities, and that everyone involved in the debate took a more or less equal part. We need to be mindful of our approach, members and staff alike, but especially staff members need to be careful not to engage in one-on-one debates with members, and instead have a clear set of rules and procedures to follow that respect the (trouble-causing) member and help to steer her/him in the right direction in order to avoid the need to restrain/punish. I understand your views, Eez and Darth, and I agree that people should stay natural and not pretend they like something they do not, but I do think we need to find a way to avoid getting entangled in unnecessary arguments and making other/new members feel unwelcome even for their mistakes or misunderstanding.

I find it helps to spell these things out clearly. It may be common sense, but you'd be surprised how easily people forget. "Don't be a jerk" is a little too brief. Most forums, and in fact, even overly formal and cold legal agreements have a written guideline that says "All parties in their dealings with each other will act reasonably and in good faith", which basically means have a positive and supportive attitude through the whole ordeal. It is better to ignore someone's repeated requests -- or, better yet, try to calmly explain to them the environment/circumstances they're in -- than to criticise/scold them and take a more hostile approach. That's my personal view, at least. I think we generally need to think open and positive when communicating with one another, and try to support each other's efforts -- and if someone is somehow abusive in their behaviour, we can point them to the rules and say: this is what you need to follow if you wish to continue your stay. I think that's fair on everyone.

You need to place _humanoid next to the model's folder in the folder structure, then open the GLM in ModView.

Since I've joined, I've been talking to a lot of members here, and I've found many of them have experienced hostilities from too much egotism on behalf of other members on the forums. In order to help improve relations, may I suggest adding something like the following to the forum rules:

Copyright doesn't just disappear overnight. In most of the cases it gets transferred onto another individual/company. And from the looks of it, neither do large companies/identities. For copyright to expire, it either needs to be abandoned for a long time (over 20 years), or the original copyright holder needs to explicitly give up their rights, and that means legally stating that they no longer wish to have legal ownership of the intellectual property or artwork. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

I see. Couldn't you edit the _humanoid GLA and just remove the animation control points from it? Depending on your needs, you could also just make the playermodel invisible by editing the model's shader(s). Then you wouldn't need to worry about its animations.

I'm trying to understand this... So, you don't need any of the game's animations for your mod/work?

I think you're right, @. If your mod doesn't contain any content or subject copyrighted to LucasArts/Lucasfilm/Disney, I think the EULA allows you to sell your game mod/map/model on an individual basis. You wouldn't be violating the original agreement. Because you own copyright on your work, they are legally not allowed to take that from you, so they can only (sub-)license use of your work, which they have done so using the EULA in clause 7.

minilogoguy, I quoted relevant sections from the original (PC) game EULA for you there as well. Aspyr owns a license from the original developer/publisher to commercially distribute the game and all its assets, so yes, they do "own" the game in a way. And I seriously doubt that the copyright to the original assets is gone, otherwise we would be able to include all the original assets under a CC license with OpenJK.

Actually no, minilogoguy. Since you're modifying copyrighted assets, you'd be most likely violating both your game EULAs, and that would likely legally require you to delete your games: Note that the term "Software" here covers the in-game art as well. Legally you are not allowed to edit or re-use the original assets in any way. Create a PayPal account. We will donate. I think we should seriously help each other out like this. It will allow us to spend more time doing what we love. It really doesn't have to be much. Everyone chips in a couple of bucks (if they can, of course), and donations can add up to a nice sum. Depending on how important a project is to the community, this can really help support the people working on it, and speed up or improve the quality of the project. So give up your sugar or coffee addiction and help support a fellow artist/engineer!

Thanks Mrwonko. That means I need to create a Github account first, right? What are the "changes" that I upload? This "pull request", does that generate the difference between the two sources? I'm sorry, I'm totally clueless about Git(hub). >.<'

I am looking for a skilled model-maker to make and texture a new model of the character Ahsoka Tano from the Star Wars universe, possibly with two variations (her two outfits throughout her years at the Coruscant Jedi Academy), for Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, the game: Initiate Outfit (optional): Padawan Outfit: General Reference: The model needs to be appropriately rigged/weighted for in-game use, and the face needs to be set up properly for all vertex facial expressions that the game supports. The latter is of special importance to me personally because I will be using the model in cinematics. Any model-maker interested in seriously taking this creative challenge on, please feel free to either contact me through PM, or to discuss the project here. You can also post samples/screenshots of your previous work if you like. I will do all I can to help things along and even donate some money to assist with your time and level of detail spent on the model, and to show my appreciation for your work and effort. Ahsoka is an important character in the Star Wars universe, and a worthy addition to Anakin, Obi-Wan and the rest of the gang, especially since she was Anakin's first Padawan/apprentice and her fate left Anakin wounded for the events that turned him to the dark side. She is spunky, fun, a fighter, and has Anakin's bold and rash characteristics, and she has gathered quite a large fan-base following (and I don't just mean the boys).

Thanks @@CrimsonStrife, and thanks to everyone who contributed so far with their research and thoughts.

Incredible! This effectively means that every map/level mod ever created by a fan is automatically licensed to Lucasfilm Entertainment Company Ltd. with full commercial and distribution rights to the content. They could sell your maps if they wanted to. I haven't seen anything like this in a EULA before. I don't think this is technically accurate. Even if LucasArts is no more, the copyright will likely have been transferred to another entity who can still enforce their rights on the content. The line is actually quite distinct. If the new artwork is clearly recognisable as containing elements from copyrighted material, you are essentially infringing on copyright. This a guideline excerpt from Elfwood, a creative community that accepts commissioned work from their members: "Beware of copyright infringements! If you do work based on copyrighted material (Pern, Final Fantasy, Dragonlance, etc) be very wary about drawing things that are specific enough to be unique. For example, drawing a person with cybernetic implants isn't a problem, because those have shown up in plenty of movies and books, but using Geordie LaForge's visor from Star Trek is treading on dangerous ground. Likewise, drawing dragons exactly like the ones described in Anne McCaffrey's Pern books is very risky business (McCaffrey being notorious for siccing her lawyers on anyone using her creative material, even people not trying to make money off of it). Usually, a private exchange between two people regarding work with copyright-fringing materials will not be a problem, but beware of advertising your services with any images that may be on the edge of legality, and you may want to brush up on your copyright knowledge so that you know exactly what is acceptable and what isn't." Source: http://www.elfwood.com/farp/guides/comissions.html This actually means that pretty much all that the JK community has created based on characters/locations from the Star Wars universe legally constitutes as copyright infringement, but it is not likely that Disney or Lucasfilm Entertainment will go after this fan content and force it to be removed. Every work of art created by an artist has a copyright of its own associated with it, but in the grand scheme if it is based on other copyrighted material, the owner of that content has the right to revoke the artist's content from circulation. Source: http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/copyright/#headingh37 As for a donation, it has to be made clear that the donated sum is not provided in exchange for the artwork, but as a gift to the artist. And the artist can choose to share their work with the donator if they so choose -- independent of the act of donation. That said, I highly doubt someone is going to chase you for a reasonable amount of money you have given to your friend online for whatever reason. It would be nice to adopt a policy of supporting each other's time and work with donations, but this cannot be done in exchange for services or products! Now that we've dived further into the legal circumstances, I find that my initial statement is unfortunately inaccurate. Fan labour is indeed still considered a grey area in law, and as a community we don't really have any rights that protect our fan-based creative work and most of the content on this website (except entirely original content). We are not really allowed to send/accept payments for commissions on fan art, as we are not in full ownership of the content, and any commercial benefit may draw attention from the affected copyright owners of the content our work is based on. An interesting read (very relevant): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_labor After this careful assessment, my views related to paid commissions and creative work here have changed. We need to be mindful at all times that the content we create is primarily for our own use, and that public distribution may be withdrawn at any time by a third party with the necessary copyright. I agree now that fan made mods, maps, and models made that include or represent copyrighted material should not be paid for under any circumstance on this site. However, completely original content may still be sold, so mods/assets that are entirely based on original work technically could be legally sold coupled with the open source engine, I think.