Unreal 4 Engine, does anybody have it?

[CaptainCrazy]

Well since I'm building a better, much more powerful, computer I figured I'd start looking at games design more seriously.  So I just got UDK 4 which is Epic's latest engine and I was wondering if any of you guys have or have had it?

 

It costs an initial 20 Euros a month but you can cancel whenever you wish but still keep the engine and everything you got from it.  The only thing you get deprived of are the updates but that's no big deal.

 

Here's a video of what it offers:

 

 

I've been thinking of making some JKA maps on it and what not because programming was always a thing that hindered me but with UDK 4 it literally has entire maps and games and all sorts made by Epic.  You can then tear them apart, modify them, see how each thing works and even copy things directly into your maps.

 

And a final note, this is City 17 (Half Life 2) made on Unreal 4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2RJn2ctNyE

[eezstreet]

Not really a fan of UE in general, but that's just me.

[CaptainCrazy]

Not really a fan of UE in general, but that's just me.

 

Well hey that's your opinion and you're entitled to it    To be honest I've tried other engines but the communities don't seem to be as vast and there are hardly any tutorials.  I guess we all just have different tastes and Cry Engine isn't exactly cheap.  Unity is okay but it's just not for me.

[Grab]

I don't think JKA maps will look as good as on vid cuz textures are ultra low quality.

[Raz0r]

In my harshly critical opinion, these are not game engines but interactive artist toolkits, and I wish they'd go away. Or put their effort into game/graphics technology research.

[CaptainCrazy]

@@Grab, obviously the textures would be made from scratch xD

 

@@razorace, as an artist myself I'm not even going to explain why that's just a silly opinion.  People make games using this software, many games have been made using this software so I guess that them  "artists" need to go away too lol.

 

I do kinda agree but it's not like said technology is cheap so it's either find a way to make games visually better whilst still being stable on most peoples computers or not bother making games at all and instead make some sort of revolutionary technology.

[eezstreet]

@@Grab, obviously the textures would be made from scratch xD

 

@@razorace, as an artist myself I'm not even going to explain why that's just a silly opinion.  People make games using this software, many games have been made using this software so I guess that them  "artists" need to go away too lol.

 

I do kinda agree but it's not like said technology is cheap so it's either find a way to make games visually better whilst still being stable on most peoples computers or not bother making games at all and instead make some sort of revolutionary technology.

But also movies, stuff, etc has been made. How can it be called a game engine if it does stuff other than games?

I think you're missing Raz0r's point though, he's saying that the Unreal Engine isn't really a game engine, it's more like Flash to me than anything.

[CaptainCrazy]

Hang on when did I even call it a games engine? lol.

[Didz]

I thought UDK was free...

 

The Unreal Development Kit is the free edition of Unreal Engine 3 that provides access to the award-winning 3D game engine and professional toolset used in blockbuster video game development, architectural visualization, mobile game development, 3D rendering, digital films and more.

I've not tried it myself though. There's also Unity which is quite good for indie development, you can get started quick. Also MonoGame (spawned from XNA) is a great framework for indie development, but is more programmer-oriented (aka it's a game engine, not a game development kit like UDK/Unity).

[eezstreet]

I thought UDK was free...

 

 

I've not tried it myself though. There's also Unity which is quite good for indie development, you can get started quick. Also MonoGame (spawned from XNA) is a great framework for indie development, but is more programmer-oriented (aka it's a game engine, not a game development kit like UDK/Unity).

Not anymore. UDK package doesn't really exist for UE4, you have to purchase a monthly license which is imo the stupidest thing to happen to engines, since now everyone is starting to do that now and it really puts a pinch on the developer to finish quickly..

(CryTek does this too)

[CaptainCrazy]

Yeh but you can just cancel before the month is up which is what I plan to do lol.

[eezstreet]

FOSS > licensed trash

[CaptainCrazy]

Yeh I've seen a lot of awesome games that use FOSS they all need to start somewhere

[Xycaleth]

Or put their effort into game/graphics technology research.

Epic puts massive amounts of research into graphics technology and are one of the games companies driving real time graphics today.

 

How can it be called a game engine if it does stuff other than games?

A smart phone is still a phone, even though it's basically a mini personal computer and does more than just phoning people.

[Apprentice]

And a final note, this is City 17 (Half Life 2) made on Unreal 4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2RJn2ctNyE

Too bad those shots are static shots only, since it looks fantastic. This really shows how old the Source engine is and why Valve should've release the next HL instalment years ago and not focusing on L4D 1+2 and Portal 2 and whatever they were doing since late 2007. As it stands now, Source is outdated and not capable of catching up compared to recent 'engines' . . .

[Xycaleth]

You make it sound as if Valve haven't been working on improving the Source engine since 2007

[Raz0r]

@@Raz0r, as an artist myself I'm not even going to explain why that's just a silly opinion.  People make games using this software, many games have been made using this software so I guess that them  "artists" need to go away too lol.

 

I do kinda agree but it's not like said technology is cheap so it's either find a way to make games visually better whilst still being stable on most peoples computers or not bother making games at all and instead make some sort of revolutionary technology.

You missed my point. These "game engines" are toolkits for artists that are built to be pretty and interactive.

I think that's the wrong approach. I would design an "engine" from the first line of code to be clean and high performance. I'd use external tools for assets, and I care more for incredible performance on all machines (i.e. 120+ fps on an old computer) rather than the industry target of 30 (sometimes 60) fps on a modern computer.

The behavior of the game should always come before making it shine, and I think you can only achieve that if you approach it from the right direction. These modern game engines aren't doing that (in my eyes)

 

But, as I said, I'm harshly critical and idealistic.

[CaptainCrazy]

Too bad those shots are static shots only, since it looks fantastic. This really shows how old the Source engine is and why Valve should've release the next HL instalment years ago and not focusing on L4D 1+2 and Portal 2 and whatever they were doing since late 2007. As it stands now, Source is outdated and not capable of catching up compared to recent 'engines' . . .

 

I know right?  It's kinda sad that Source just doesn't seem to be progressing anywhere at all and it has been years since HL2 first got released.  I dunno maybe it's because they don't want to risk losing customers who don't have fast computers.

 

In regards to L4D 1+2 I agree with that too because, let's face it, it would have only been a matter of time before some mod team made something extremely similar since zombie survival FPS games are so popular.  Even the combat in the Source engine is starting to show its age and they haven't even released HL3 yet.  Valve has already stated that they don't intend to make anymore episodic games so maybe once they've made HL3, everything after that will be a clean slate.

 

I'm sure that they're more than capable of upgrading their engine because, let's face it, any game based off Quake is outdated because it uses BSP.  Maybe they just don't want to stray too far from what makes their games feel unique.

 

I for one am planning on making a few levels from my favorite games, the older games from the 90's, just to see how good they can really look on this generation of games engine.  I'm going to try and replicate these levels as closely as possible and create textures that are a hi-definition/modern version of the ones used in them games.

 

The only problem with engines such as Unreal, Unity and CryEngine is that it can be really hard to get a team together.  It's not as easy as with Source where people have a "Oh what the hell let's do it!" attitude towards making content.  With the new engines people are far more skilled and most wont even consider helping you unless you have a bloody good pitch.  Nobody on these engines seems to want to do things for fun and I think that's kinda sad really but I suppose that's what you get because these engines appeal to the more aspiring and professional games/movie designers.

 

@@Raz0r not all of us are programmers, a lot of us are visual artists and we can't just sit down for a year or more learning to build an engine whilst the rest of the world speeds past lol.

[Apprentice]

You make it sound as if Valve haven't been working on improving the Source engine since 2007

They undoubtly have but you can pimp all you want, you cannot hide the fact the 'car' is from 2003 . . .

 

 

I know right? It's kinda sad that Source just doesn't seem to be progressing anywhere at all and it has been years since HL2 first got released. I dunno maybe it's because they don't want to risk losing customers who don't have fast computers.

I don't think it's a matter of losing customers, I strongly believe its a combination of things and most likely the work ethic they have there.

 

I once read that Valve employees are allowed to do as they please there without set boundaries and deadlines. Just look at the SteamOS/Steambox and VR technology where they keep themselves occupied with, just because one or two blokes thought it was a good idea. Had Valve been subsidiary of (for instance) Activision or EA, then we would've seen a HL2 Episode 3 already, perhaps even more episodes or titles which would've destroyed the franchise.

 

On the other hand, letting your customers wait for almost 7 years now to continue the storyline is apart from being insulting towards the customer, also a franchise killer. Valve needs to come with a whole new engine indeed and will need to find a way in telling the story better then what they did with Half-Life 2, since the competition already surpassed them on several occasions, such as BioShock and Deus Ex: Human Revolution . . .

[CaptainCrazy]

The other main reason that I see potential in this is because, as somebody said, it's not only used for designing games but other things too such as movies and architectural design, houses, airports, etc. so I can see how this is very beneficial for game developers, architects and movie makers.

 

A lot of people say that FPS games aren't long for this world but I dunno what to think of that.. FPS games just seem to be running out of new ideas.

[Raz0r]

I disagree. I would say it's largely driven by money and bad companies.

Indie (FPS) games are still incredibly fun and innovating, but no company would fund that kind of development when they can just re-use an existing IP.

 

Then we could go back to my point of these "modern" game engines simply not facilitating those kinds of games, because they focus more on being an artist's toolkit.

That's the primary reason I and many other "indie" programmers don't like to work with those engines, but artists love them. We don't have the time/patience to fight through some over-engineered code to make something it wasn't designed to make.

[CaptainCrazy]

Well I don't have to fight through anything because on UDK 4.3 all the coding is already there for me and I can just tear things apart to see how things work   But, as you said, I'm an artist so I do appreciate what you're saying.

 

The sort of games that I'm interested in making are open world, rustic maybe even Steampunk games where everything is kinda grungy I guess.

[eezstreet]

UE kinda went the wrong direction after 2.5. 3.0 and above were meant to produce sparkly graphics, not games. Ever wondered why Epic hasn't really made a whole lot of games lately? They're in the business of making graphics engines, not making game engines.

 

The whole reason it's used so much is because publishers see "GRAFIX" and tell their slaves developers to use it. Smalltime developers/hobbyists say "wow, this is what the pros use! If I use it, I'm like one of them!" or "GRAFIX" and start using it. I can't think of a single reason to subject my game to that engine. :/

[CaptainCrazy]

Didn't think that this thread would descend into mockery...

[hleV]

It can be used for more than creating games? Well it must suck!