Cerez

 

The bot AI is specific to JK2/JKA.  Q3 uses AAS files instead of bot routes with waypoints.  The NPC code and the bot code are two completely separate beasts.

 

The bots will only take the routes of the waypoints.  If they get off course they just jump spam hoping to get back on course if stuck or whatever.

 

See:

int BotFallbackNavigation(bot_state_t *bs)

LOL, go Raven Software! How can you design AI based on a fixed route where the actual AI is reduced to guess-finding a route and attacking an enemy in range if the enemy happens to be near the designated path. As good as many features of JKA are, this is one of the worst.

I'm guessing that the funds for this were cut to bare-bone low because the management thought MP will be just a gimmick, and isn't worth investing much in.

Thanks for the insight, Ensiform. I suppose the only way to really fix this would be to code a new AI system, or adapt the NPC system for MP. I'm guessing the latter is what the JKG and OpenJK team are working on.

Oh, and thanks for the detailed explanation, Darth. I appreciate it.

Something like that should be pretty easy But the decision making is what really needs fixing :/

That's true. A core rewrite of the AI system would really benefit this game. But in the meantime, I would personally love to do two things:

1. Disable/reduce running for bots.

2. Disable hopping/jumping for bots when no route is present.

If anyone knows how to script/modify either of these, please speak up or forever hold your silence.

Also, saber1 in the bot file needs to be fixed to 0. 6 is not a valid value.

 

//The bot's saber color. This can be within the same range of the player's color1 value.

//0 - red

//1 - orange

//2 - yellow

//3 - green

//4 - blue

//5 - purple

Source: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=200206

The problem with improving the AI is that it's one of most difficult areas of development. It's not something that average Joe can go in and fix up properly because there's a lot of maths involved and there's a lot of work to get a good understanding of what needs doing.

Yep, that does figure. Still, I imagine forcing them to walk instead of run wouldn't be too much of a challenge, would it?

Yep, the cull twosided fixed it.

the Gamefront link seems to be broken :| Could you share a dropbox one maybe? Thanks! Looks good.

Are you sure? It's working on this end.

I'll try an alternative upload. I don't think I have a DropBox account… :\

Is it normal, robed or hooded? I may have forgotten to add a cull twosided for a texture.

The normal one. I haven't tried the other two.

Should I take a screenie?

(Sorry about the massive images above. Next time I'll be sure to use links...)

And an alternative icon for ye who fancy:

I noticed one small error with the model: the inside of the garments is missing a texture. It's particularly noticeable when the character squats. I think if the external texture was mirrored on the inside that would effectively fix this issue.

Otherwise, just as everyone has stated: excellent work. The resemblance to the real life actor is as close as I've ever seen in a model.

Monty Python to the rescue! Some guy? o.O On jacoders? o.O

Do tell.

JKA's terrible lighting does have a hand in all this, but the textures are dark. In the future remember to keep the textures as bright and clear as possible, DT. Don't add apply any low brightness to them (even if it is a generally dark character) because JKA's lighting is already unforgiving, and will turn anything under full lighting to dark anyway.

I've also added an extra shader onto the eyes, as Maul's eyes are not quite human and they do appear to glow most of the time.

I hope you don't mind my hand in this, DT.

Here's the updated package file:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/24343635/maul.zip

EDIT: And just for you guys, I set up a DropBox account. Aren't you special?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7ykd2bwthyfktn/zzzz_DT_Maul.pk3

Screenshots:

Awesome model! The only gripe I have with it is that the head looks awfully dark ingame, almost looks black, but when you look at pictures like this, it's much lighter.

I think we should be able to fix that with the proper shader. I think I'll have a look into it.

The Maul is from the films why the hell would you want the crappy sounds from video games when it already has authentic sounds from the films. Your getting on my nerves with all the stupid ass suggestions and requests. Just take the time and effort and do it yourself.

Guys, seriously! Why all the hostility? What kind of attitude is this? Why can't we just accommodate to everyone's needs? Patience. We're not dogs, we don't need to lash at each other. There are better ways.

No offense, but I find the sounds to be kind of derpy. Not very Maul-like imo.

 

I advise using TCW sounds or as I mentioned before, relying on TFU. And I'm sure the starwars.com soundboard might have something.

Sounds are easy to replace, Palpatine. If you send me the sound files you'd like, I can convert them and custom package a PK3 for you (and anyone else that would like TCW series voice instead).

Absolutely amazing work, DT! Congrats on a fabulous release!

Thanks Stoiss. So that would mean there is a way, it just has to be done right... and it might require modifying the source?

Thanks, that would explain my problem. The line is red in my tutorial map; I'll try to get it green and see if that does something.

In that case we should keep in touch and help each other out. Two heads are better than one. We should collect all that we can gather about cutscene scripting and place it in a collective resource for everyone who wishes to learn the quirks of the trade.

I have found the following tutorial series from the past:

http://web.archive.org/web/20091022065706/http://geocities.com/kengomaps/tutorials.html

It goes into a little more detail.

By the way, you can use the Wayback engine to find content from old links now gone from the web. It's a giant web archive that saves snapshots of sites through time:

http://web.archive.org

So if you ever find that a link is gone, try searching for an earlier version of the site up on Wayback.

Pretty much yes it does.  Otherwise you get stupid jumping behavior.  The single-player npc ai is much better in many cases, but yeah the bots depend on boute routes.

But the question is how much. Are the routes there for guidance, or are they a set path the bots will always follow that dictates their behaviour? It seems to me there is some programming in place that allows them to make choices independent of the path itself -- like when they encounter the player character as an obstacle.

Also, wouldn't forcing the bots to walk instead of run help to stabilise them a bit? Is there any way to force them to walk?

I still think something may be done about this to calm their behaviour and make them act more like an opponent in the movies/shows.

To me Lucas went wrong after the very first film, and especially wrong in the prequels. I can't imagine anyone wielding a sharp laser-sword like a stick/bo, not to mention jabbing it through doors. It is a laser! It's designed to cut and burn! For this reason the way the sabers are handled in the fight between Vader and Old Ben in the first film comes closest to a realistic image for me.

My favourite moment is when Luke ignites his father's lightsaber for the first time. It's so sudden and feels so dangerous as a weapon because it is. The way he handles it is true to the real image of the sword.

I know the new moves cater to popular taste so much more, but for me a sci-fi movie is about realism.

Although, thinking about it, this does sound like a limitation to the engine itself. If it requires scripted bot routes to define behaviour for computer controlled characters and relies on these scripted routes to the full extent, then there really is limited/minimal AI scripting support in the game.

Can anyone with extensive knowledge confirm that the engine relies on the bot routes 100% to define the behaviour/movement of bots in-game? I haven't looked at the source code myself...

This is what they do when they don't have a bot route for the map.

But even with the bot route, they often end up running back and forth in what appears to be without method.

Would there be any way to change this default behaviour to a more stationary/composed one? I can't see jumping around benefiting anything, and I think it's a major mess-up on the part of the original development team.

When I did it I could get the door to open but Desann had all his limbs. I found other tutorials for NPC's that helped more than this one for what I wanted to do so I just kinda let it go.

Does a message appear on top of your screen that says it couldn't find the script ? If not, only thing I can think of is the linking between the trigger and scriptrunner may be reversed.

Thanks IrocJeff. There's nothing that says there is something missing or went bad in the console, so I assume the script compiled and loaded successfully. About the order, it's the scriptrunner that's supposed to be connected to the trigger, right? That means the key details for the trigger link appear in the scriptrunner event/instance.

Do you still have links to the tutorials you've used to learn? I'm interested in learning cutscene scripting/writing in JA to the full extent.

I'm wondering -- especially with the JK source code loose now -- whether anyone has managed to fix the undeniably stupid jumping and back-and-forth running behaviour of added bot characters in Multiplayer JKA? Or is this a limitation of the Quake 3 engine? (Don't say it is if you're not sure!)

If you're uncertain what I mean, try loading Darth Vader as a computer opponent in Multiplayer, and see him bouncing like a four-year-old.

Can they be made to be grounded and attack methodically?

Does this tutorial exercise still complete successfully for you?

2. Your First Script

I followed all the steps in detail, and when I loaded the map in SP, I ended up in the room with the door unwilling to open, and as a consequence the script not firing.

I'm trying to find if there's a mistake I did along the line, somewhere...

Yeah, both Zbrush and Mudbox does that. You can get Mudbox with a student license, I'm sure. Look up some speed sculpting videos on youtube, and to give you an idea: http://stephaneginier.com/sculptgl/

Thanks Boothand. That's kind of what I had in mind, though the online utility is still very rough in editing the model. It would be good if individual vertices could be selected and dragged as well for fine adjustment. But the real trick here I guess is having a utility that allows you to import a model from the game, tweak it, and export it back into the game. It just makes things so much simpler than running 2-3 utilities with various plugins.

This whole picture of mine comes from the fact that there are so many excellent 3D models created in the JK community alone, and if we had the ability to easily tweak these models -- even if it's just for our own use -- we could re-create an infinite times more characters from the Star Wars universe. Then we could fill the void of all the extra characters who no model-maker could take the time to create a dedicated model for. With a good new skin/re-skin and a tweak, many of these new characters would be clearly distinct from the original character model they were based on.

Of course, credit will still need to go where it's due.

I have a half finished port of ModView for OSX if all you need to be able to do is view animations and models. I was supposed to finish it last year but got put to the side for a while and I never got back to finishing it.

That sounds intriguing, Xycaleth. Do you think you can get it to a stable release? I'll certainly have a look at it. Could this source be compiled for Linux as well? A preview utility for both Mac and Linux, along with the Windows version of ModView would come in real handy for everyone.

ModView works fine for me on Mac.

Yeah, it's like scratching your back with your arm wrapped around your head. XD

Not everyone knows how to work Wineskin, and emulating just for the sake of running a small preview tool sucks. Not to mention that Wineskin wrappers require maintenance when you're migrating to a newer OS release.

That's why it's nice of you to offer and maintain the packages on your site.

But the point still stands.

I'm not sure how you can make dragging a few vertexes around much easier in modeling programs. It's a matter of selecting the vertex editing tool, and then click/dragging the vertex you want to move o.O same with triangles. But the problem of weighting still stands - you can only change so much before the weights become useless as your model will deform incorrectly when it animates.

And the conversion process is a hassle. Heh… would you laugh if I told you that I still haven't found the vertex select tool in Mod Tools? >.<' I can't even figure out how to rotate the bloody view!

This is just a wild guess, but do you actually have a separate light or shader set on the tramcar? It could be that the game is interpreting the lighting scenario based on the surroundings. If that's the case, giving the tramcar a fixed value should solve the lighting problem.

I'm no mapping or lighting expert, just going by computer logic here...