HELP! Leak in map (GTKRadiant 1.5)

[Atera]

Hi

 

Im making a rather large map and I am being bombarded with about 20-30 leaks along with an error. The error I am recieving is:
"MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY EXCEEDED".

 

I have searched and tried to increase the _blocksize to any low to high power of 2 digits with no luck.

I have gone through every area of the map and detailed as many brushes and such as I deem to be possible.
I have tried caulking the outside to my best efforts.

 

The leaks I recieve are similar the: "Entity 500: Brush 0"

 

Now when I try to delete this entity, the error remains and the map just chooses another entity. If I keep deleting them, it just never quite stops. It constantly selects another entity.

 

So I figured my map must be leaking, right? Yet I cant find any red lines that usually indicate where the leakage is happening which is usually the case... I don't even know where to start!

 

I make an entire caulk box around the whole map, select the inside, then invert it. There's a ton of brushes and such that get marked... Does that mean all of these are being leaked? That was my asumption.

 

So I make an entire box around the entire map on all 3 cameras in the 2D view, hollow it with caulk. Then I select the inside, and invert it yet again. Yet the same brushes and such get marked again...

 

If it was a leak, shouldnt that huge box have covered it? What can possibly be causing this? Help!

[CaptainCrazy]

That is kinda odd...

 

I'm mainly good with Hammer but I'm sure one of these guys can help you!

 

Try making a new map or something, something very simple to see if it gives you the error.  Maybe something got corrupted but i can't say for sure =/

[Atera]

That is kinda odd...

 

I'm mainly good with Hammer but I'm sure one of these guys can help you!

 

Try making a new map or something, something very simple to see if it gives you the error.  Maybe something got corrupted but i can't say for sure =/

I've been working so hard on this ;_; It would be devastating if I basically had to scrap it

 

Hell I can live with the leaks.. just.. cant I make the VIS compile properly?

 

I found a thread a while ago where someone said he had modified Q3Map2 to where there were no MAX_MAP_VIS limitation. The link he gave doesnt work though... anyone know if theres such a thing out there?

[mrwonko]

It would be much easier if you just uploaded the map for us to take a look at.

[CaptainCrazy]

What happens when you try to play it?

[Atera]

What happens when you try to play it?

Well I believe I can get in but no VIS is being made due to the error so I need to resolve it.

 

I do have one save file prior to removing one entity that was somewhat outside the map which when I didnt remove it => Would still cause leakage. But when I removed it, I got the VIS error that I have now. I have double checked and I am sure that whenever I remove that entity it causes the problem. But even without removing it, I still get leakage so I don't think keeping it is an option (If anything it like ..delays the error).

 

@@mrwonko:

I'll upload it and link you in just a minute!

[CaptainCrazy]

Well sorry but, as i said, I work mainly with Hammer which is very similar but yeh xD

[Atera]

Well sorry but, as i said, I work mainly with Hammer which is very similar but yeh xD

I appreciate the help anyway ^^

 

@@mrwonko:

Sent you a PM!

[Boothand]

What GtkRadiant version do you use? I have had problems when compiling using one version opposed to another, which is kind of weird since it's q3map2 after all.

 

Do you have any duplicate brushes? Tried brush cleanup? Wild guesses...!

[Atera]

What GtkRadiant version do you use? I have had problems when compiling using one version opposed to another, which is kind of weird since it's q3map2 after all.

 

Do you have any duplicate brushes? Tried brush cleanup? Wild guesses...!

How exactly does the brush cleanup work? I used the plugin for Bob or whatever its called. It just claims to clean 1 up. Do I keep spamming it, lol?

[Boothand]

How exactly does the brush cleanup work? I used the plugin for Bob or whatever its called. It just claims to clean 1 up. Do I keep spamming it, lol?

 

Well, strangely enough I've also had it repeat that it cleans 1 up before, but usually it doesn't find more after 3-4-5 times. It should be safe. Save your map, clean all up and see if that changes anything. Invalid brushes are usually caused by using the vertex tool in GtkRadiant 1.6.

[Atera]

Well, strangely enough I've also had it repeat that it cleans 1 up before, but usually it doesn't find more after 3-4-5 times. It should be safe. Save your map, clean all up and see if that changes anything. Invalid brushes are usually caused by using the vertex tool in GtkRadiant 1.6.

Ill give it a go tomorrow, gotta sleep for now. But I tried it like 10 times last time and it just kept giving me 1 all the time.

 

 

Anyhow: I just gave it a run in GTK 1.4 instead of 1.5.

 

The same thing happenend although it marked the entities/brushes more clearly (still no red line though).

 

As I deleted one, it would ask me to delete another yet in the same entitity (just as 1.5).

I believe if I truly delete everything, there may only be like 2-3 rooms out of 10 or so that would not be touched.

 

This is awful

 

The leak error (outside of MAX VIS still), in 1.4 was =>

 

Entity 0, Brush 7493: Duplicate Plane

Entity 0, Brush 7623: Degenerate Plane

Entity 0, Brush (otherdigits): Degenerate Plane (several ones of these and even one or two Degenerate Patches)

 

So what exactly is a Degenerate plane/patch? And how come in 1.4 it mentions Entity 0, Brush # whereas in 1.5 it mentions Entity #, Brush 0?

 

I also noticed that as I was loading the map in 1.4, I got a few yellow colored lines after each other saying "Brush has no normal" or something like that.

Not sure if that helps.

[Atera]

Okay I can't sleep. Cant stop thinking about it.

I've easily done over 300 brush clean ups now and I keep pressing it, 1 by 1. It never ends! Is it even working? No clue... It keeps saying

 

"1 Invalid/duplicate planes removed"

 

Yeah I've been doing it for so long now I don't even know how many. The number of brushes havent moved at all from its original 8855. Is that normal? I dont think I will keep doing this, it feels as if it will never end.

[Boothand]

Okay I can't sleep. Cant stop thinking about it.

I've easily done over 300 brush clean ups now and I keep pressing it, 1 by 1. It never ends! Is it even working? No clue... It keeps saying

 

"1 Invalid/duplicate planes removed"

 

Yeah I've been doing it for so long now I don't even know how many. The number of brushes havent moved at all from its original 8855. Is that normal? I dont think I will keep doing this, it feels as if it will never end.

 

You can probably stop.. pressing that button

 

Hopefully mrwonko will figure it out since he has your map file. I haven't really come across an issue like this.

[mrwonko]

You need to be waaaay more aggressive with the use of detail brushes. You can press Ctrl+D to hide detail brushes, Ctrl+P to hide Patches, and Alt+2 to hide entities. That will leave you with just the structural brushes as they're considered by vis. Now ask yourself: Is this basically an empty room with plain, probably perpendicular walls? If no, it's likely more complex than necessary.

 

Take that spiral staircase: First of all, You definitely don't want every single step to be structural - do you have any idea how many portals that's going to create? The number is too damn high. And secondly, the room itself is round - but as far as visibility is concerned you really only need a cuboid. The 12-sided brush in the center doesn't help, either, contrariwise. Well, just let me make a couple of screenshots...

 

 

 

This is the staircase I'm talking about.

 

This whole room is way too complex. As are many others, but I'll take this as an example. It should look more like this:

All the pillars, raised walkways and whatnot should be detail. But there are some particularly bad things which I'd like to highlight especially:

 

No. Stairs bad.

 

If you really need to make something round out of brushes, at least make them detail.

 

Grates should pretty much always be detail.

 

Both that hole and the metal bars will create unnecessary portals.

 

I'm just gonna stop repeating myself now.

 

 

 

Other things:

• There are quite some broken brushes and patches, which you should get a warning about on compiling, in 1.6 and 1.4 anyway
• The Area Portal texture must only be applied to one side of the brush, the rest ought to be system/skip
• Don't worry about Entity Leaked, that happens whenever an entity is inside a brush but in the case of models at least that's not a problem - Map Leaked is the bad leak

[Atera]

You need to be waaaay more aggressive with the use of detail brushes. You can press Ctrl+D to hide detail brushes, Ctrl+P to hide Patches, and Alt+2 to hide entities. That will leave you with just the structural brushes as they're considered by vis. Now ask yourself: Is this basically an empty room with plain, probably perpendicular walls? If no, it's likely more complex than necessary.

 

Take that spiral staircase: First of all, You definitely don't want every single step to be structural - do you have any idea how many portals that's going to create? The number is too damn high. And secondly, the room itself is round - but as far as visibility is concerned you really only need a cuboid. The 12-sided brush in the center doesn't help, either, contrariwise. Well, just let me make a couple of screenshots...

You're like my hero right now! The map has been in progress since 2008 or so and is a clan map, passed down from several people. I have like no mapping experience other than this and I am trying to make it just.. come together and work basically (since we do rather have a *map* atleast when you look at it in radiant). Is it really possible to fix this or is the map just basically broken because its built poorly? I realize the issues you pointed out now, but I am not skilled enough to go about solving every one of them. Years of effort down the drain?

 

Also I have taken close look at the map ingame with r_showtris 1 and developer 1. Isn't VIS basically what is drawn? I've set up area portals (even if two sided, my bad) and well... most areas (if not all) I believe are not drawing past each room/area, so why is it exceeding the max vis?

 

@@Boothand

Must've pressed clean brush over 1 thousand times easily, hahaha. Damn it.

 

[mrwonko]

Also I have taken close look at the map ingame with r_showtris 1 and developer 1. Isn't VIS basically what is drawn? I've set up area portals (even if two sided, my bad) and well... most areas (if not all) I believe are not drawing past each room/area, so why is it exceeding the max vis?

To determine what is visible from where, the map is split into small areas, and then visibility between them is calculated. These areas are created using the structural (i.e. non-detail) brushes. So a many-sided brush will create lots of areas. MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY means you have too many of these areas.

 

You don't want many small areas anyway - one area per room is usually sufficient. Which is why you just want very simple, straight walls and floor for each room, and pretty much no detail whatsoever.

 

Maybe I could do the necessary repairs for you... Is the version you sent me the most recent one? Can I go ahead and edit it, then send it back?

 

It's missing a couple of textures, by the way:

 

 

models/mapobjects/ts-torch01/fire01

models/map_objects/jeditemple/torso

models/map_objects/jeditemple/stonehead2

textures/arevass/water

textures/arevass/water_plants

models/map_objects/missioncenter/statue01

textures/yavin_jk2/stonepanel05

textures/yavin/stonepanel05

textures/yavin/stonepanel03

textures/council/carpet_border

textures/yavin/goldblock

textures/rift/riftdoor_council

textures/anaboo/base2

textures/council/red

textures/jeditemple/glasstest

 

 

[Atera]

To determine what is visible from where, the map is split into small areas, and then visibility between them is calculated. These areas are created using the structural (i.e. non-detail) brushes. So a many-sided brush will create lots of areas. MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY means you have too many of these areas.

 

You don't want many small areas anyway - one area per room is usually sufficient. Which is why you just want very simple, straight walls and floor for each room, and pretty much no detail whatsoever.

 

Maybe I could do the necessary repairs for you... Is the version you sent me the most recent one? Can I go ahead and edit it, then send it back?

 

It's missing a couple of textures, by the way:

 

 

models/mapobjects/ts-torch01/fire01

models/map_objects/jeditemple/torso

models/map_objects/jeditemple/stonehead2

textures/arevass/water

textures/arevass/water_plants

models/map_objects/missioncenter/statue01

textures/yavin_jk2/stonepanel05

textures/yavin/stonepanel05

textures/yavin/stonepanel03

textures/council/carpet_border

textures/yavin/goldblock

textures/rift/riftdoor_council

textures/anaboo/base2

textures/council/red

textures/jeditemple/glasstest

 

 

Damn, I see. Sounds like when making a map, you pretty much need to have that in your head the whole time. Kind of difficult now though...

 

Mr Wonko, if you do that for me then words will not be able to express the gratitude I would feel. Like I mentioned before, it's for a whole clan so yeah... If you were able to do that, thank you oh so much.

 

Yes that is the recent version (the MMC one). I will hunt for those textures and send you a PM when I got them all.