Cerez

That's so true. It made the story a personal journey for all of us, instead of keeping us as spectators like the prequel films did. All the films really did was establish a setting (a world) and present a whole lot of action, but without real emotional involvement. That's where The Clone Wars are so much closer to the original trilogy than the prequels.

I know there was a rumour circulating about that. I know that George played a part in the creation of Ahsoka, and that him and Dave (the director of the series) kept in active touch regarding the development to her character. It's also obvious that there had to be a way to prevent Ahsoka from being able to appear later in the original trilogy films and in Episode 3, but I don't think killing her was actually intentionally discussed as a plan of action at any point.

I thought I'd start this little poll to find out which aspect each of us likes most about Star Wars. What drew us in, and/or what's keeping us around. If there are any options I left out, feel free to let me know in the comments below.

Hmm… It's too early to say yet, but deep down I still feel that the same thing is taking place with the Clone Wars to Rebels transition as with the rest of the Star Wars art so far. But let's move away from the Clone Wars series, and look at the earlier work (like the prequels to original trilogy relation) to analyse the artist to art subject relation and determine the general artistic possibilities with the new sequel, Episode VII, in the series. That may help us to come to some worthwhile conclusions about sequential art and the artist's proper conduct in relation to his/her work.

Thanks for your thoughts, and opinions, @@Ping. The way you've expressed them at first made me jump back in fright a little, but I do see your point about the prequel/sequel problem. I will pose the question, though, is it really necessary for a prequel or sequel to impact the original work, and, furthermore, if Lucas' intention was to expand on or continue the original story, why had he changed the feel and thematic content of the artwork? I don't remember the original trilogy have so many action sequences and so little character development, for example. In serial fiction, the episodes are usually tied in a manner where the overall essence of the series is maintained throughout, even if the individual stories differ. For instance, the Back to the Future series is a good example. The episodes have an entirely different storyline, and each even have a completely different time period and location, and yet they all feel as though they are a part of the same work of art. The original trilogy of Star Wars does the same, as does the original Indiana Jones trilogy. The same thing can't be said about the fourth Indiana Jones film, which, although it attempts to mimic the feel of the original series, fails to capture much of the essence of the original artwork. If an author/artist is going to revisit a work of art they have released 10 years ago, they ought to do it in a manner that preserves the integrity of the original artwork. That's no easy task (largely due to the passage of time), and that's why I think, as a rule of thumb, that, once finished and released, an artwork should not be re-edited or altered in any way by the original artist -- especially if considerable time has passed since its initial release. The on-going problem with the new Star Wars is exactly this: while all the content is intended to fall into the same work of art, they do so in a way where old content is being replaced and "overwritten" by new content, and the older work of art is constantly being affected or compromised by the new. That's what I mean about the Clone Wars series as well. For the sake of argument, let's take the Star Wars: The Clone Wars as an original, independent work of art. If the Clone Wars series was an individual work of art, with its own style, not tied to the grand label of Star Wars, the series and its character would endure and survive the passage of time. But now we have another series that mimics the style of the old one, also labelled as Star Wars, that changes the overall themes and essence of the original artwork, and pushes the original work of art into the background. Therefore no respect is being paid to the old series and its characters. I'm hope what I'm trying to say here makes sense.

That whoever ask that question be executed immediately, unless they are Sith.

What I'm effectively looking for is a way to pipe the results of a VSTR to a CVAR through the console in base JKA. I.e.: set oldModel "placeholder" set thisModel model vstr thisModel --> pipe the result to oldModel EDIT: Even better; directly pipe the result of "vstr model" into a user variable. It's strange that the Quake 3 console should not have a way to pass the value of an returned command into a variable, or some way to directly pass on the value of a variable into another variable… :/

No, no-no; I'm not saying that as an artist I would create work solely for others' enjoyment, @@Circa. Quite the contrary. Art is an expression of the artist, and it needs to stay personal at all times. But once the artwork is considered done for the first time by the artist, and released to the world; from that point there should be no further changes necessary. If the artist seeks to improve his/her own work, they should do so by creating a new artwork, not by mending the already published one. The original artwork should be preserved for what it is, with all its merits and faults. That's what I firmly believe. Because sometimes faults add just as much to the integrity and value of an artwork. And there is the chance factor, the "gift of the muse", the "magical" essence that contributed to its first creation that would be compromised with a second interference by the artist.

I agree with this entirely. But as an artist myself I find that it helps not to touch what has been completed, or what works, exactly for this reason. Out of respect for the creation, and for the audience that appreciates it. That doesn't stop an artist from moving forward. There's a point where every artist needs to let go of their artwork, and release their baby to the world. Beyond that, changing anything is altering the integrity of the artwork, and in my belief showing a form of disrespect towards one's own creation. George Lucas is a good example, as what he did unsuccessfully represents this issue in creative rules/philosophy really well. And while it's true that Lucas didn't create everything on his own, the work was still his property as an author, and he had moral responsibility over it while handing out licenses, permissions, and overviewing new work created for his fictional universe. In fact, he still does to this day, supervising the production of the new trilogy as the original author and advisor.

CrimsonStrife, so you're saying that the voice of the person who appreciates the artwork the artist has created should not be heard? That the fan/reader/viewer's experience should not be respected and taken into consideration? The artist creates, but he/she needs to do so in respect to themselves, to their own work, and the effect their work has on the audience. I believe a good artist will never desecrate their own work. As human beings we are not in full control of all that we create. Other factors come into play. And that's why we have to be careful and respectful towards what we have created. I feel the artwork that I've started this thread with shows exactly this dilemma of the creator: torn between his uncertainty whether to make drastic changes, or whether to preserve the integrity of his original creation. All the while the artwork (the character) stands on the other side, her fate entirely determined at the mercy of the creator, but witnessed by countless people in the audience, whose hearts are affected by the artist's changes. The point of this thread so far has been not to complain, but to discuss the relationship between the artist and his creation, as presented in the artwork I have shared at the start of this post.

Yeah, but what you both seem to keep missing is that in the process of adding in those details and making changes a vital essence of the story was lost. The humanitarian value of the artwork was compromised by the author/owner of the work. Those details did not have to be told. There were other ways the lore could have been expanded that would have preserved the integrity of the original art.

That's interesting. I still remember a time when the Clone Wars was an overwhelming historical event, when the Jedi knights were a mysterious force from the ancient past who possessed almost magical powers, and where a young boy was forced to embark on a great adventure to find the shocking truth behind his greatest fears -- to the audience's delight. Where the world of Star Wars was not so scientific and held elements of great mystery and magic. The story told today is not that same story. EDIT: "Before the dark times, before Lucas had…"

Well, it's more a feeling than anything that I have, Circa. But if you look at the damage that has been done so far to the original trilogy stories, events, and characters, you can see a similar pattern repeating itself over and over and over. In Star Wars the old is out-phased, the new dominates, and the non-mainstream is sunken and forgotten. That's not how stories should be told, as they are cherished by those who hear them. Ahsoka's fate is such as well, most likely. A non-mainstream character to be forgotten. That's an interesting perspective, CrimsonStrife... …but I'm not sure this applies entirely to the way stories are being changed in Star Wars... EDIT: It's more as if you were to take a well-known folk tale, continue its story and change the characters' backstory, motives, behaviour -- perhaps introduce entirely new main characters -- and then pass that on as the new version of the tale. If the new version is heard and adopted by a great number of people, the old story, its messages and its characters will slowly disappear... slip into oblivion. It seems to me that's what Lucas has been doing with his creations.

Rule 5: Your rival must succumb/die before you leave/disconnect or you shall be deemed weak, and you shall never be able to return to the server. If you do, your return will be punishable by painful death at the hands of your Master.

Well, whether it's canon or non-canon really has no relevance when you consider that minor stories are constantly being sacrificed for major ones in Star Wars. And what makes the major ones more valuable? Moreover, why do they need to be sacrificed in the first place? Why can't all these characters coexist? After all, these stories, events, and characters were all created as a part of Star Wars, and we've established that care and responsibility needs to be given to creation. With the cancellation of the Clone Wars series, and the rise of Rebels as replacement, the Clone Wars characters will likely slowly slip into oblivion. With the new movie trilogy the Expanded Universe will effectively be erased (removed from mainstream) and old characters may be permanently changed with the new movies. Canon or non-canon, these fading characters are in the same shoes because of their owner's reckless decisions.

Not at all. This is the arts section, and philosophy is very much linked to art. That's true. We all, together, play a part in keeping these characters alive, but it is also true that their overall fate is determined by their owner/creator. If their maker (or owner) decides to change them, taint them, destroy them, then many people's view of them changes, too. The more people see them differently, the more their fate is twisted and the outcome is determined by everyone's view of them. This way strong characters can turn into weak characters, good characters can turn evil, and what appeared once from a commonly established viewpoint can become something entirely different. Sometimes creators do not learn to appreciate their creations, and they are cruel to the characters they create. They lack respect, and understanding toward them...

That's because you are still not under Lord Onysfx's reign. Don't worry, it's a small error that will soon be corrected. Soon you will all be a part of his new Empire, JKHub will be ruled by the Sith, …and we shall have peace.

It actually kind of reminds me of the "nothing" in the The Neverending Story (the book). Man's unwillingness to embrace imagination that destroys all that's good in the world of fantasy. How everything so intricate and magical is extinguished by mundane practical things. Because of money and interest (in a new trilogy of movies), a large number of characters will forever disappear, and be swallowed up by the "nothing", and others will likely be injured in ways that leave them permanently damaged. They are completely at the mercy of their owners/creators. And each one of us plays a part in keeping them alive.

Episode what? EDIT: I'm worried for what will become of Luke, too, but that's a different topic.

*whispers* It's an eraser, you computery people, it's an eraser… No, not the "eraser tool" in Photoshop, but an actual, real-life, rubber eraser. The kind that can completely remove a graphite drawing… with no "undo" options... *sniffs* It presents Ahsoka's -- and all the other semi-forgotten SW characters' -- state so well. Why can't they live on? Why do they have to be forgotten?

Yes, I was talking about the source code, not the assets. If you wanted to create a sword-fighting or FPS game with supernatural/psychic powers, for example. I can actually imagine a Dune adaptation using the JKA source, for instance (though that would require legal permission from whoever holds the rights to Frank Herbert's novel and its intellectual content now).

Hmm… any rule, regulation, decree, or order not given by a Lord of the Sith shall henceforth be decreed invalid and deemed punishable by death. Problem solved. (Now we have only amongst each other to bicker. )

Yep, then there would be no legal barrier. Even the game's source has been released under a GNU GPL 2 license -- which means the software and modifications to it can be sold. The only things that are still the exclusive property of LucasArts/LucasFilm and require their permission for use are the game's original assets and the Star Wars universe with all its names, events, locations, and characters, etc. Practically, you could create your own game from the JKA source, create a new world and matching new game assets, and sell it as your own creation as long as you pass on the source code with the same open license to everyone else. Or in this case, you are free to create your own assets for the game and sell them as long as you're not infringing on anyone's intellectual property (copyright). And it seems like you're not, so that leaves you with a green light. That said, I'm no lawyer, so you need to check the legal facts for yourself.

That's right, once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy!!! B) And all the forces of Disney shall bow before our power. Disney will crumble, and we shall create the first Galactic Fan Empire!

What do you think of my first decree, Lord Onysfx?