IF: Transition from the dark side

[syainkn]

I know that when a force sensitive turns to the dark side, his/her eyes changes to yellow or gold with pale skin.

Oneday, I have few questions about the dark side status with changing variables.

 

1. If the dark side-users suddenly become non-force-sensitive, what will happen? Of course, they lose powers. But anything else? What happen to their skin and eyes and body?

 

2. Can a non-force-sensitive turn to the dark side?

 

3. Can the dark side users do good thing or do a good deed?

 

4. If a jedi fell to the darkside, but he's disapproving his status and saying "I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm not fallen to it".   In this status, can he do right things with these powers?

[General Howard]

I know that when a force sensitive turns to the dark side, his/her eyes changes to yellow or gold with pale skin.

Oneday, I have few questions about the dark side status with changing variables.

 

1. If the dark side-users suddenly become non-force-sensitive, what will happen? Of course, they lose powers. But anything else? What happen to their skin and eyes and body?

 

2. Can a non-force-sensitive turn to the dark side?

 

3. Can the dark side users do good thing or do a good deed?

 

4. If a jedi fell to the darkside, but he's disapproving his status and saying "I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm not fallen to it".   In this status, can he do right things with these powers?

 

That is a general misconception. Not all Dark Side Force users have yellow (Sith) eyes and pale skin. It just depends on what level the acts of "evil" are, that they've committed. Even a Force user/Sith who's been using the Dark Side for years or extended periods of time doesn't necessarily have the typical Sith appearance traits. Take Count Dooku, for example.

[the_raven]

1. If the dark side-users suddenly become non-force-sensitive, what will happen? Of course, they lose powers. But anything else? What happen to their skin and eyes and body?

 

2. Can a non-force-sensitive turn to the dark side?

 

3. Can the dark side users do good thing or do a good deed?

 

4. If a jedi fell to the darkside, but he's disapproving his status and saying "I'm okay. I'm fine. I'm not fallen to it".   In this status, can he do right things with these powers?

1) I don't think the Dark Side corruption - which the eyes and skin are representative of - will go away if a person lost their connection to the Force. The corruption is a physical matter, so changing alignment, or losing connection to the Force won't fix it, unless you're specifically focusing Force Healing or something, but that's just my opinion. Still, a Light Side aura may be gone

2) No, I don't think they can, at least, not the same way a Force user would. What makes Force users different is that they perceive the world around them on a higher level, and they can directly affect (and get affected by) the Force, which means they'd get stronger influences when doing good or bad, and so on. So to answer the question - a non-Force-user would not technically turn to the Dark Side, they'd just be an evil\ bad person, but would be less likely to remain evil, should their motivation change - the Force won't feed their negative feelings as much as it would a Force sensitive or Force user.

3) Certainly. In fact, when Dark Side users do good deeds, they do them knowing why, and what will result from them. The Jedi do good because they're supposed to, it's something their trained to do, like dogs, they don't think of the consequences - in KOTOR2 we're actually shown this when on Nar Shadaa you give 5 credits to a beggar, and later he gets mugged and robbed by another beggar. Dark Siders know why they do good things (if any). It's simple, either they have an obvious interest, or they're doing it 'for a change', or just for kicks.

4) This is a matter of discussion. For one, there are people who'd say that one's objective perception is the only one that matters, though they forget that we're susceptible to delusions and other mental calamities. I don't think that a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side but doesn't acknowledge it, didn't fall. I think they're just lying to themselves. Still, if we follow Kyle Katarn's (and some other individuals' line of thought), the Force isn't inherently light or dark, it's how you use it, so whatever the alignment, if you're trying to do good things, even by throwing Force Lightnings, and succeeding, then who cares? But you know, if you go this way, you may as well justify the creation of the Empire, because peace can be brought either through diplomacy, or through destroying all opposition. If you played Jade Empire, they explain this when discussing the game's two main philosophies - 'open palm' and 'closed fist' - both can solve the problem, and the consequences can be good and bad in both cases, further, it's what consequences you're willing to see, or what consequences you actually see, that might matter most. For instance, you give a beggar some money thinking you're helping them live another day, but instead you're prolonging their miserable existence, or giving them money for booze and they're not really a beggar, or the money you gave them will actually allow them to buy a lucky lottery ticket and become rich. Who knows? It's all relative, and it's all judged by the consequences and our subjective perception.

 

That is a general misconception. Not all Dark Side Force users have yellow (Sith) eyes and pale skin. It just depends on what level the acts of "evil" are, that they've committed. Even a Force user/Sith who's been using the Dark Side for years or extended periods of time doesn't necessarily have the typical Sith appearance traits. Take Count Dooku, for example.

While I agree with your opinion on this being a misconception, I disagree with your example of Count Dooku. I actually did a search today, asking why Dooku didn't expose Palpatine before Anakin chopped his head off, and I got a particularly interesting answer, that in fact, he wasn't evil, he just had an outlook that differed from that of the Jedi and the Republic, and that Palpatine manipulated him by playing on that outlook.

[syainkn]

While I agree with your opinion on this being a misconception, I disagree with your example of Count Dooku. I actually did a search today, asking why Dooku didn't expose Palpatine before Anakin chopped his head off, and I got a particularly interesting answer, that in fact, he wasn't evil, he just had an outlook that differed from that of the Jedi and the Republic, and that Palpatine manipulated him by playing on that outlook.

 

Yeah, you're right. And I have an another answer.

Why didn't Dooku tell Palpatine's real identity to Anakin and Obi-wan before he dies?

--> Because of Palpatine's dark side force skill, I don't know what it is but it's certain that he blocked Dooku's mouth before he opens it.

 

4) This is a matter of discussion. For one, there are people who'd say that one's objective perception is the only one that matters, though they forget that we're susceptible to delusions and other mental calamities. I don't think that a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side but doesn't acknowledge it, didn't fall. I think they're just lying to themselves. Still, if we follow Kyle Katarn's (and some other individuals' line of thought), the Force isn't inherently light or dark, it's how you use it, so whatever the alignment, if you're trying to do good things, even by throwing Force Lightnings, and succeeding, then who cares? But you know, if you go this way, you may as well justify the creation of the Empire, because peace can be brought either through diplomacy, or through destroying all opposition. If you played Jade Empire, they explain this when discussing the game's two main philosophies - 'open palm' and 'closed fist' - both can solve the problem, and the consequences can be good and bad in both cases, further, it's what consequences you're willing to see, or what consequences you actually see, that might matter most. For instance, you give a beggar some money thinking you're helping them live another day, but instead you're prolonging their miserable existence, or giving them money for booze and they're not really a beggar, or the money you gave them will actually allow them to buy a lucky lottery ticket and become rich. Who knows? It's all relative, and it's all judged by the consequences and our subjective perception.

 

My example is Master Atris in SWTOR2.  I heard that she denied her status of the dark side in her Academy but kreia informed the truth, and she finally fall into it completely.

If she keeps denying her status, could she maintain her mental status?

[the_raven]

Yeah, you're right. And I have an another answer.

Why didn't Dooku tell Palpatine's real identity to Anakin and Obi-wan before he dies?

--> Because of Palpatine's dark side force skill, I don't know what it is but it's certain that he blocked Dooku's mouth before he opens it.

 

 

My example is Master Atris in SWTOR2.  I heard that she denied her status of the dark side in her Academy but kreia informed the truth, and she finally fall into it completely.

If she keeps denying her status, could she maintain her mental status?

Actually I read about it, and one of the answers states that Dooku was honor-bound not to say anything - being a noble and all; whereas another answer states that he was just so shocked when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him, it flew out of his head, as he thought Palpatine would stop Anakin right before the final blow, as they agreed before the Jedi came. Both these explanations seem to come from official lore, so I don't know which is true. The second version comes from the RotS novelization, where Dooku actually tried begging for his life, saying that Palpatine promised him immunity, should he get captured, to what Palpatine said that it only counted if he had previously let him go. Anyway.

 

Atris from KOtor 2 - please don't confuse this masterpiece of a game with that crappy mmo. But like I said, Atris was lying to herself, and Kreia simply opened her eyes.

Atris thought that by understanding the Sith teachings, she could fight and defeat the Sith - knowing your enemy is crucial to defeating them, after all. That's why she had her handmaidens collect holocrons - Sith holocrons - and that's why she had them in her meditation chamber. But the Sith from Kotor 2 weren't the same as before, they followed different teachings, teachings that weren't even Sith to begin with, Revan's teachings - they were united by a hatred of Jedi, following a belief that neither of them understood, nor really cared about - to them, being Sith was about destroying the Jedi, nothing more, nothing less. Sion, who was the only confirmed real Sith, didn't care for teachings, all he cared for was battle, and the desire to stay alive; Nihilus (whose background still isn't clear) only cared about satisfying his hunger, and likewise, about staying alive (though he was long dead, being ghost stuck in the iconic outfit); whereas Traya, who was a dark-Jedi-turned-Sith, cared a little too much of teaching to see the obvious 'human' factor. That was her initial failure, because much like Atris, she thought she could understand Revan by retracing his footsteps to Malachor V, where she began to learn from the Sith, and fell to the Dark Side. Later she thought that by teaching Sion and Nihilus, she could finally do what she thought Revan wanted to do all along, but this blinded her to fact that her own students didn't see eye to eye with her, so they cast her out. She knew of delusion, of pride, of the desire to attain knowledge for a greater good that would ultimately be too much to handle; she knew Atris, because she had already been Atris, that's why Atris was meant to become a new Darth Traya, because she was following in her footsteps, doing the same mistakes.

Sure, Atris could have gone on believing that what she was doing was right, and thus, she may have gotten herself killed, or she may have defeated some Sith and believed she had won, creating a new Jedi Order, tainted by traditional Sith teachings, so easy to become corrupted and misuse the power - after all, once you've tasted power, you can't let go of it, and if others don't agree with your vision, then they are fools who should be subdued, or destroyed. Having the power to subdue or destroy, there's little from having you use it.

So ultimately, Atris'd have done the things she'd always thought evil, without even realizing it.

[syainkn]

Actually I read about it, and one of the answers states that Dooku was honor-bound not to say anything - being a noble and all; whereas another answer states that he was just so shocked when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him, it flew out of his head, as he thought Palpatine would stop Anakin right before the final blow, as they agreed before the Jedi came. Both these explanations seem to come from official lore, so I don't know which is true. The second version comes from the RotS novelization, where Dooku actually tried begging for his life, saying that Palpatine promised him immunity, should he get captured, to what Palpatine said that it only counted if he had previously let him go. Anyway.

 

Atris from KOtor 2 - please don't confuse this masterpiece of a game with that crappy mmo. But like I said, Atris was lying to herself, and Kreia simply opened her eyes.

Atris thought that by understanding the Sith teachings, she could fight and defeat the Sith - knowing your enemy is crucial to defeating them, after all. That's why she had her handmaidens collect holocrons - Sith holocrons - and that's why she had them in her meditation chamber. But the Sith from Kotor 2 weren't the same as before, they followed different teachings, teachings that weren't even Sith to begin with, Revan's teachings - they were united by a hatred of Jedi, following a belief that neither of them understood, nor really cared about - to them, being Sith was about destroying the Jedi, nothing more, nothing less. Sion, who was the only confirmed real Sith, didn't care for teachings, all he cared for was battle, and the desire to stay alive; Nihilus (whose background still isn't clear) only cared about satisfying his hunger, and likewise, about staying alive (though he was long dead, being ghost stuck in the iconic outfit); whereas Traya, who was a dark-Jedi-turned-Sith, cared a little too much of teaching to see the obvious 'human' factor. That was her initial failure, because much like Atris, she thought she could understand Revan by retracing his footsteps to Malachor V, where she began to learn from the Sith, and fell to the Dark Side. Later she thought that by teaching Sion and Nihilus, she could finally do what she thought Revan wanted to do all along, but this blinded her to fact that her own students didn't see eye to eye with her, so they cast her out. She knew of delusion, of pride, of the desire to attain knowledge for a greater good that would ultimately be too much to handle; she knew Atris, because she had already been Atris, that's why Atris was meant to become a new Darth Traya, because she was following in her footsteps, doing the same mistakes.

Sure, Atris could have gone on believing that what she was doing was right, and thus, she may have gotten herself killed, or she may have defeated some Sith and believed she had won, creating a new Jedi Order, tainted by traditional Sith teachings, so easy to become corrupted and misuse the power - after all, once you've tasted power, you can't let go of it, and if others don't agree with your vision, then they are fools who should be subdued, or destroyed. Having the power to subdue or destroy, there's little from having you use it.

So ultimately, Atris'd have done the things she'd always thought evil, without even realizing it.

 

So eventually, she was wrong and going to the corruption.  If she keeps going, her own jedi order may be created but it's not real Jedi Order anymore.  It's just mutated order or gray jedi order(?)

I thougth she could use for good deed... but I was wrong.  Anyway...  I don't know everything about her because I've never played SWTOR2 except searching a little information from fandom wiki.

[the_raven]

So eventually, she was wrong and going to the corruption.  If she keeps going, her own jedi order may be created but it's not real Jedi Order anymore.  It's just mutated order or gray jedi order(?)

I thougth she could use for good deed... but I was wrong.  Anyway...  I don't know everything about her because I've never played SWTOR2 except searching a little information from fandom wiki.

That's my theory, and it's implied through in-game dialogs. Except that it wouldn't be a gray order, it'd be a Jedi Order that's a Sith Order at heart. You see, being gray is a choice an individual makes. When you think yourself good, but do evil, you're not gray, you're just evil. In Force terms, you'd be a dark Jedi - a Jedi in title, but an evil person in fact. It wouldn't even be about choosing, Atris' order would simply corrupt itself.

 

And again, it's KOTOR 2, not SWTOR 2. KOTOR means Knights Of The Old Republic. The first game was about Revan, and came out in 2003. The sequel (KOTOR 2: The Sith Lords) came out in 2004\ 2005, and was about the Exile. SWTOR - Star Wars The Old Republic is a spin-off\ sequel to the KOTOR games but is only superficially tied to them. It's only one game, so there's no SWTOR 2.

Both KOTOR games were single-player RPGs, whereas SWTOR is an MMORPG, and is of far worse quality when it comes to story and originality - basically it recycled a ton of prequel content with some original trilogy content, and some KOTOR content, and added some of its own. Additionally, the KOTOR games take place ~4000 years before the movies, whereas SWTOR takes place some 200-500 years after KOTOR 2.

 

Also, play KOTOR, both of them, they didn't win all those awards for nothing! They're some of the best (if not actually the best) Star Wars games out there! You'll love 'em, I promise you!

[syainkn]

Also, play KOTOR, both of them, they didn't win all those awards for nothing! They're some of the best (if not actually the best) Star Wars games out there! You'll love 'em, I promise you!

 

I wish there's korean language pack of KOTOR... but it doesn't exist.  It's unconvenient to play it with English because I can't read it faster.

But...  when the time comes, I'll play it.

[the_raven]

I wish there's korean language pack of KOTOR... but it doesn't exist.  It's unconvenient to play it with English because I can't read it faster.

But...  when the time comes, I'll play it.

Not even a fan-made one? Why not make one yourself?