Editing Talk:Tournament

==General talk==
Do you think that we should use the name of the teams/players that were actually used in the respective tournament or the name that is most known? It becomes complicated when an ESL team changed the name and the players while it's actually the "same" ESL-team (e.g. xeTox->aXiom->WSH or aXiom->JK)
--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 11:21, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Good question. As you can see, I just picked the name that they are most well known by, so it's zentur1o the entire time and not EviLWindu, anemic etc. But we should be careful, since axiom and JK are different, even though they're technically the same team on the ESL that merely renamed. In those cases, we should go for the names they actually used in the tournament, which you can find by comparing the date of the tournament to the history log of the team, since the tournament page always gives the current name and the history log has all the correct details. So your change of axiom to WSH for the Winter Games is correct, for example, but corona vs bioxar is right for this one: http://www.esl.eu/de/jkja/tdm/openingcup/match/5021535/ even if the page says BHK vs sA or something, and xetox is right for #1 on this one http://www.esl.eu/eu/jkja/tdm/tdmeaster07/rankings/ since they were called xetox at that time (04.07) if you check the team logs. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 11:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I think we need to change some formating as the sorting in the table is completely broken (try to sort for date or cup size). --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 11:43, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah it doesn't work very well for sorting according to date, but they are sorted by date by default, so f5 solves that; we could put the year and then the month after the year like 2005.10 to fix it, but that's quite a bit of work for something that f5 can do just well enough. The sorting by cup size sucks indeed and I don't even know how we'd go about fixing that. It does sort them by proximity (all 4 size cups together, all 8 size cups etc etc) but it is a mess. Sorting by winners works really well though and that's what I really like about it. So yeah, any ideas for cup size? --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 12:45, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I guess 008, 064 etc would look stupid but that's the only I can come up with atm --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 13:19, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Applied the changes. See how that works for you now. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 20:05, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Good job, looks nice --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 11:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Tray for adding the Russian tournaments there, but all the links to vk.com do not provide us with brackets at all (e.g. https://vk.com/basejk?w=wall-87507889_61 ); for the tournament links, only post brackets please. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 03:39, 18 September 2016 (CEST)

What about tournament series / leagues? For example Epic has held 39 (sic!) JK2 1v1 tournaments since late 2014. Some of them had top players participating and good attendance, definitely worth a mention as a whole. Adding them all would be (a) spam (b) too much work. I propose following format (in a separate table):

{| class="sortable wikitable"  style="margin: 1em auto 1em auto;text-align:center;border:double silver 3px;line-height:23px;"
! Date
! <span title="League">L.</span>
! Tournament Name
! <span title="Region">R.</span>
! <span title="Format">F.</span>
! <span title="Editions">E#</span>
! Winners
|-
|2014.11-2016.09||SoL||SoL NF||[[File:int.png]]||1v1||38||[[File:int.png]] Padawan (15) [[File:int.png]] Pada (9) [[File:int.png]] padawan (3)
|}
Where number in parenthesis after player name is a number of times he won. This could also be used for ladders where "winners" column would contain #1 players with their respective periods of reign. Very long series/ladders (like this one) can be split into shorter periods. Perhaps "winners" columns should be split into #1, #2 and #2 ordered by their win count, or other rule if a tournament/ladder has one. What do you think?
--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 16:49, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

I think we should add single cups always as single cups. In the end 35 is not a big number compared to the cups we added so far. Doesn't have to be everything added at one time and/or the work can be split between us. But let's see what Ping thinks  --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 19:23, 25 September 2016 (CEST)

Nice job on all these jk2 cups. Maybe we should split the whole thing in Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast cups now as we have quite a lot JK2 cups. Also thanks for fixing x4n/xandy. It's kinda confusing because I'm quite sure, that the JKA x4n also played some JK2. --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 21:31, 26 September 2016 (CEST)

I'm going to add about 50 more 1v1 and 2v2 cups from 2015-now period. Also I would like to dig info about a handful of big international tournaments from 2000s I remember and this will be it I think. Too bad whole JK2 ESL is gone and not archived, it worked just a few years ago. Also keep in mind there is a completely separate 1.02 community (mechanically 1.04 is much closer to JKA than to 1.02) and they may want to add their events one day – eg this jk2ffa.freeforums.org link you have in "Stuff to add" section.
--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 23:49, 26 September 2016 (CEST)


Yes, I am strongly in favour of adding all the cups one by one and separating the JKA from the JK2 sections. Also, I think we should stick with the distinction made between major and minor cups, depending on player number and how good the participating players were. When it comes to different versions: If there are a lot of 1.2 tournaments, we can split the jk2 section into 1.02 and 1.04 ones. I think that's the best solution. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 10:49, 28 September 2016 (CEST)

I did some restructuring, see if that is better now. If we want a similar major/minor distinction for jk2 1.04, I am down for that, but I do not know the JK2 scene at all, so if you guys feel like just keeping them all together without a major/minor distinction, I am ok with that too. I have mostly introduced it to keep the small and barely relevant, private cups away from the bigger ones for the sake of being able to see who won the most larger cups by merely sorting the lists according to winners etc. That way we have a tournament list and a hall of fame list on the same page. But it is not mandatory of course. Anyways, thanks a lot for the additions, I am extremely happy to see the list flourishing so much. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 11:42, 28 September 2016 (CEST)

I'm not sure about minor/major distinction for JK2. How do you define a minor tournament? By signup restrictions other than regional? There is only one invitational cup in JK2 list, few had some restrictions like these ESL series where winner wasn't allowed to play in following editions, or this "amateur" tournament. Not enough to have a separate list. There were ofc many internal clan tournaments but I'm not adding them. By player count or more or less objective competition level? Each era had it's heroes, maybe there is someone who hasn't played for years and could blow out of the water all players in some 2010s tournaments but he chose not to. They show who was best at that point of time, nothing more or less. Player count only reflects current activity.

Many players whom I remember being dominant in their time have only one or no appearances. ESL ladders and clan wars were often as prestigious as tournaments back in 2000s, also competition was harsher. Wouldn't use it solely to determine the "best player ever" but it's a great Hall of Fame for JK2 competitive scene.
--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 17:25, 28 September 2016 (CEST)

I'm actually also not a big fan of the distinction between major and minor tournaments since it's not easy for a reader to understand what the differences are. It feels kinda random.
At the moment it's like that:
At least 16 players in 1on1 or 8 teams in teamcups = major, rest minor. Except for intern tournaments (minor) or special cups with really good players (major).

A problem with the current structure are the weapon- and mod- tournaments. I wouldn't want to mix JK2 and JKA so we would need two sections of mods,weapon,force tournaments, one for JK2 and one for JKA. Or we do what I suggested on the bottom of this page having only one section for each game including mods,weapon,force.

--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 18:43, 28 September 2016 (CEST)

I really like it, but I understand where you guys are coming from. I'm ok with not having it for JK2 though, that's fine. As for weapons/mods (WM) tournaments, I'd love to see a lot more of that in the list and I am 100% with afinity that we should split the current one we and place it under the corresponding JKA/JK2 parts. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 16:56, 29 September 2016 (CEST)

Having checked out an edit preview of what was suggested, I am not sure anymore if I like it as much as I thought I would, because the JK2 section gets too bloated. I assume we would want 1.02 and 1.04 WM sections as well. Again, I am unfamiliar with the scene, but it looks odd to have 1.02 and 1.04 sections for sabering but only just one for WM. Also we'd have to place "sabering" in each section that is not a WM one unless we want to abolish the WM one entirely as afinity suggested. I kinda really would prefer to keep weapons and sabers separate because they are just very different gametypes with very different communities etc, whereas sabering 1v1/2v2/TDM is basically the same community. So I think the best option is the first one that afinity mentioned: i.e. we split the WM section into JKA and JK2. In any case, would love to see more WM tournaments added there in general. --[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 17:14, 29 September 2016 (CEST)

Here is my proposition: Main categories should be JK2/JA. Keep sabering tournaments in one (or two as in JA section) table and all the rest in another with detailed "Format" field (eg "iCTF 2v2" "1.02 FF 1v1"). If a need arises – add more subcategories. I know there were competitive 1.04 CTF, 1.02 CTF (without weapons), instagib CTF and Movie Battles communities in 2000s, but it will take their respective members to populate this page. archive.org sites don't get indexed, jk2 ESL is not archived, finding info/sources for these sabering tournaments was possible only with some extreme memory-stretching by me and nod.
--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 17:35, 29 September 2016 (CEST)

==In case of broken links==
We saved all of the tournaments as images. If a link is not working anymore, please make a comment. --[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 14:36, 2 March 2016 (CET)


==Stuff to add?==

http://challonge.com/games/star-wars-jedi-knight-ii-jedi-outcast-3/tournaments Edit: done

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/jedi-knight-ii-tournament-announced/1100-2869605/

http://challonge.com/saber Edit: done

http://jk2ffa.freeforums.org/results-t847.html

There is quite a lot to find on challonge

--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 22:12, 12 March 2016 (CET)

http://challonge.com/users/epicjk2

http://challonge.com/users/fau

http://challonge.com/users/kr0

--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 17:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Following international JK2 leagues. Information is sparse on the internet and someone who has better memory of them should try to fill it.

* 2002 Jolt Force of Many, other jk2.jolt.co.uk leagues
* 2002-03 bygames
* 2003 Orbit
* 2004 GH Season 1
* 2005 damage inc
* 2006 GH Season 2
* 2007 ESL Nations Cup
* 2008 bullzeye! Cup
* 2008 HOK Tournament

I think I'm just gonna fill them without missing info (winners and such). Hopefully this will provoke people visiting the page to complete it.

--[[User:fau|fau]] ([[User talk:fau|talk]]) 13:19, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

== Todo/Ideas ==

* Some players or teams don't have the right country flags
* Make a list of top players. Like who won the most cups or reached top3
* Show (money-)prices if there were some
* Link to demos/screenshots
* More JK2 tournaments

--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 12:58, 23 July 2016 (CEST)

We gotta fix their country flags, definitely. As for the list of top players, one of the reasons why I like this table format is because it allows you to sort according to winners, which gives you easy access to how many people won how many tournaments. However, if we want to make it even more explicit, maybe an article (as a news post, not on the wiki) on tournament victories might be a good idea.

For money prices, I think there were only 2 tournaments that had those, i.e. the basejka ones from 2013 or so. They are a bit of an exception to anything else that has come before or after (except for the heavily priced tournaments in the first few months of jka's release and the jk2 tournaments, but we'd need sources on the price money to verify all of that). Would be hard to implement too.

The rest are excellent ideas. The demos/screens sound like a good idea for the demos archive that never came and never will come. There could be a section just for that: tournament demos etc.

--[[User:Masta|Masta]] ([[User talk:Masta|talk]]) 13:35, 23 July 2016 (CEST)

It would be great if there was a way to generate a top-list automatically based on the information in the table. But dunno if that's possible.
Maybe we can list money prices separately if we find enough cups which had that.
Can you request a subpage of jkhub to host demos? Like demos.jkhub.org or so. That would make this kinda easy.
--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 16:09, 23 July 2016 (CEST)

_____________________


As I mentioned above I think it could be a good idea to think about a different kind of division of the table now as we have a lot of JK2 cups.
My idea is to have three main divisions:
Jedi Academy, Jedi Outcast and Mods (Movie Battles and whatnot). We could also integrate the CTF and weapons cups into the saber table, actually I don't think that it would hurt at all.
So in the end it would look like this:

1) Jedi Academy
   >Major Cups
   >Minor Cups
2) Jedi Outcast
   >Major Cups
   >Minor Cups
3) Mods

4) Unfinished Cups


What ya think?


Edit: Or we put the mods to their respective games (Movie Battles II -> JKA, Movie Battles I --> JK2 etc)


--[[User:Balthor|Balthor]] ([[User talk:Balthor|talk]]) 21:34, 27 September 2016 (CEST)